Regelridderen Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 Upgrades are cool, but with a cost of 2 Stones and added minion abilities, you really need to think about when and where to hand them out. INHUMAN REFLEXES What an awesome toy. To make the most of it, you’ll want a model with a good move, to charge through enemy models and hand out damage. Preferably a minion, so you aren’t held up in a fight - mature nephilim seems like the perfect choice - although expensive. In my own crews (Dora and the Dreamer) I use it as more of a defensive tech for 2” engagement beaters (LCB and Teddy). Allowing these two ‘dodge’ secondary attacks via Butterfly Jump. ANCIENT PACT I initially shilled out for this for crucial to protect my masters from the Dreaded Black Joker, but learning how crucial the ability to cheat is in this game, I started looking to the card draw minion mechanic. As extra cards are a powerful thing, you’ll want these minions out of harms way, so utility models like Daydreams or Lucius Lawyers seem a great fit. ELDRITCH MAGIC Again a card for dedicated front runners, as you heal while things die, and you demand a steep price for triggers - and triggers are usually crucial - again the mature nephilim would have a good time with this. But having condition removal is a really nice ability vs many crews, so maybe given to a supportive piece like a Sorrow, this would be a perfect fit. Ultimately I think, I’d prefer just having two extra Stones in most cases... but still, the lure of the upgrades is always there. What do you think? Where do you use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 Eldritch magic as you say is great for condition based matchups. Inhuman reflexes I find often is overkill on protection. Tight gameplay will protect your models enough most of the time. The main exception is if a model is a scheme target (such as for claim jump), the butterfly jump really helps. Ancient pact... I'm not sure if it has become a crutch, but 2x on ancient dreams is something I take every game at this point. Two extra cards a turn (33% more than you would get otherwise!!) is just too good. The initiative bonus is always nice as well, but can be devastating on corrupted idols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostHunter Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 As for Ancient Pact discarding black joker is just nice bonus, the +1 to initiative flips is much better, the real deal is with nefarious pact allowing for free draw, but... for the whole thing this upgrade is just too pricely and as Zoraida player this upgrade is useless for me (but Fae doesn't have any card draw which is quite sad comparing to the rest of my crews, hehe). Eldritch Magic - quite nice upgrade to have in arsenal which allows to not have Serena (i don't like her), so she is not a must have option in any roster struggling with condition spam from enemy. Counterspell is nice addition (there is also some but, because fae and savage have easy access to bultungins, but but dispel magic is a little more easy way - it needs 6+ not 7+ card and has range option). I would see this upgrade rather on some kind of nasty support/irritating model (waldgeist in my case, maybe even Silurid used to distraction spam). Inhuman Reflex - the real and probably the only winner for me - add this to minion beater (in my case Rougarou) and it's very infuriating for any bubble crew. But to tell you the truth i don't use them (max one per crew, usually 0), i don't think they are as good as in the other factions (i'm looking at you - Guild, TT, Ressers, Arcanist). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 Eldritch in a woe may be very good in condition based match ups, as the woe can remove 2 conditons with just 1 dispel magic. IR is very good, and becomes really good in models with Frenzied Charge. In Nekima that upgrade is nuts if she is fighting something with 1 as she could charge multiple times. Bloodwretch (too weak) and Cojo (can't charge engaged, slow, range 1) are probably not worth it for the upgrade from an ofensive point of view. However in crews with access to Obey or Commands, the ability to charge while engaged in addition to the ping damage may be worth it for a lot of minions; mind this one in Marcus, Lucius and Zoraia crews. About the ammount of upgrades... depends on the game and what you are facing. I tend to pick from 1 to 3, in some rare cases none or even 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 I spam our upgrades, honestly. Double Ancient Pact giving that +2 to initiative is gold, the two cards a turn is great, and between two my matures, I avoid probably two black jokers a game. Inhuman Reflexes is stapled to Nekima's card, her ability to abuse it to rob people of AP by stiff arming them, and the blade rush damage, is invaluable. Hayreddin's a squishball and needs it to live, too. Hands down the upgrade my foes complain about the most. 8 stones in upgrades is alot, but it just impacts the game so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 Ancient Pact I think looks nice but it's kinda meh unless you stick it on something dirt cheap... and unfortunately even my cheap models I want doing things pretty close to the enemy so now I have a 3 or 4 ss model running around with 5/6 stones worth of value. Risky. Eldritch magic I love on pandora, since it allows her to remove two conditions from anything (even her own stuff). Now if I could just like pandora into a lot of matchups... Inhuman Reflexes is known as Butterfly Jump around here. It's so good, particularly on Mature Nephilim (because you get the full card as a minion), but it's found a home on Ted too so he doesn't get bogged down or focused. Usually I only take one cause I only have one thing it needs to be on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozer Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 The only "auto-include" upgrade situations for me are: Ancient Pact: On any model with "take an action again" triggers or abilities and summoners. Statistically, models with extra action triggers have much (~200%) higher odds of flipping that black joker. As for summoners - they bank a lot of value in that once-per-turn summoning card flip and hitting a black joker on it can literally cost them the game. I would use Ancient Pact on Hinamatsu and Dreamer every time. Eldritch Magic: This is the silver bullet card against condition masters. I would include it against Kaeris, Criid, Brewmaster, McMourning, Reva, Tara or any other crew that keys their abilities from conditions. Inhuman Reflexes: While still good in some circumstances, this is the least valuable of the upgrades. I would put it in an alpha-strike style crew and/or on a model that would get a lot of mileage out of charging like Nekima or Geryon. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabe Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 Really surprised how much love Eldrich Magic is getting. I recon its straight up garbage. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexLock Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, McCabe said: Really surprised how much love Eldrich Magic is getting. I recon its straight up garbage. 😕 I mean, given half the conditions in the game can be removed by the assist action, paying 2ss to be able to remove them a little more efficiently seems a bit of a waste. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted November 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 2 hours ago, LexLock said: I mean, given half the conditions in the game can be removed by the assist action, paying 2ss to be able to remove them a little more efficiently seems a bit of a waste. Yeah, but distracted/burning/injured might not be the biggest worries, especially not, when you face a crew, that likes to hand out Slow, Stunned, Adversary etc. - or maybe you’ll just see a point in removing enemy conditions like Fast or Focused. Of course, its not relevant in every matchup, but it’ll have its place in others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 It depends, Eldritch Magic isn't something to include in every game; but conditions are a big deal and crews that use them expect the other player to bring some tech versus it. Going into a condition heavy match up without efective ways to remove the conditions is giving the other player the edge (Unless the strategy is avoid all contact with the other crew and just scheme, but that's not always posible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabe Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 Just pay the extra 6 stones and take Serena- she's excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 hour ago, McCabe said: Just pay the extra 6 stones and take Serena- she's excellent. I agree somewhat, but Serena cannot remove enemy conditions IIRC. That can be a critical distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabe Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I agree somewhat, but Serena cannot remove enemy conditions IIRC. That can be a critical distinction. Yeah but at that point the condition removal is so inefficient. Its 1 ap, for one conditon on a 2 cost upgrade, with opposed duals so no guarantee. I get that enemy conditions can hurt but the upgrade is painfully inefficient - situations which make this upgrade valuable exist but they are incredibly specific for example if you know you're fighting a fire golem. You're in a much better place teching to manage the effect of most conditions rather than trying to strip single enemy conditions with AP - Further if you're putting it on a garbage minion how are you getting close enough to effectually do this without being deleted due to the obvious intent of the piece - if the condition is so signficant that you take this piece then its obviously going to be a priority for your opponent. It just isn't a good upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, McCabe said: Yeah but at that point the condition removal is so inefficient. Its 1 ap, for one conditon on a 2 cost upgrade, with opposed duals so no guarantee. I get that enemy conditions can hurt but the upgrade is painfully inefficient - situations which make this upgrade valuable exist but they are incredibly specific for example if you know you're fighting a fire golem. You're in a much better place teching to manage the effect of most conditions rather than trying to strip single enemy conditions with AP - Further if you're putting it on a garbage minion how are you getting close enough to effectually do this without being deleted due to the obvious intent of the piece - if the condition is so signficant that you take this piece then its obviously going to be a priority for your opponent. It just isn't a good upgrade. Yeah. Part of the issue is that it has two abilities meant to go on things that want to spend time hitting things, and an action you want on support models. I can't think of many situations where I'd take it, but a surprise assassinate on McMourning for example would be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 4, 2019 Report Share Posted November 4, 2019 It needs to go in the right model of course, for defensive use the wicked doll is great. It's dirty cheap, it has Stealth and Creep along to stay safe in the back and then move forward with the free action to use the condition removal. Woes will also get extra benefices with the Oportunistic, being able to eliminate 2 conditions at once (one with Dispel Magic and the second with Oportunistic). Iggy for example is a condition removal machine, reckless plus Oportunistic (Burning). For a more forward/ofensive use it really need a good compromise between endurance and not wasting APs from important pieces. In crews with Obeys like Lucius or Zoraida you may use the extra actions to use the condition removal so putting it in a more expensive model is ok. In other cases you'd need tanky models being good for staying there instead of for using their APs and slap the upgrade to them. Maurice, Vasilisa, Rattler, Autum Knight or Insidious Madness are good candidates for that upgrade. All of these are utility focused tarpits that will benefice from the defensive abilities of the card and who can use the condition removal if that would be more annoying for the other player than using their own abilities (The insidious will even heal if it is engaged! and may unbury other Nightmares while doing so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 11/4/2019 at 12:16 AM, Maniacal_cackle said: Yeah. Part of the issue is that it has two abilities meant to go on things that want to spend time hitting things, and an action you want on support models. I can't think of many situations where I'd take it, but a surprise assassinate on McMourning for example would be one. Especially for crews like mcmourning (ripping off 8 poison on anything is going to be amazing), Kaeris, Sandeep, Perdita. Anything that gives out conditions like candy (not the model) is going to hate Eldritch magic. Oh and don't forget counterspell... kinda fun on 7-8 point minions lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 55 minutes ago, Nagi21 said: Especially for crews like mcmourning (ripping off 8 poison on anything is going to be amazing), Kaeris, Sandeep, Perdita. Anything that gives out conditions like candy (not the model) is going to hate Eldritch magic. Oh and don't forget counterspell... kinda fun on 7-8 point minions lol. Counterspell is certainly very good! Since it provides a choice it isn't super powerful, but it is fantastic for resource taxing in some matchups (I theorize). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Counterspell is certainly very good! Since it provides a choice it isn't super powerful, but it is fantastic for resource taxing in some matchups (I theorize). I can confirm it is good in matchups where the enemy relies on triggers (ironsides, Mei Feng, etc.) or in crews where you eat your opponent's hand (Pandora). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, Nagi21 said: I can confirm it is good in matchups where the enemy relies on triggers (ironsides, Mei Feng, etc.) or in crews where you eat your opponent's hand (Pandora). Makes sense! I'd take it all the time if it could go on my beaters. As a minion only ability it seems quite niche. But hitting defensive triggers is niccccce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.