Radek Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 If Hannah copy Arik (strongarm suit) bonus action, does Charged Fists work with blast damage? As it says "models damaged" indicating plural form and not only target? Or page 30 of rulebook : The damage a model suffers from a blast is unaffected by effects that increase the damage the original target suffered from the attack. means blast damage is never increased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 solkan Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 51 minutes ago, Radek said: If Hannah copy Arik (strongarm suit) bonus action, does Charged Fists work with blast damage? It appears that the scenario is this: 1. Hannah uses Adaptive Tactics to perform Arik Schottemer's Charge Up Action, and chooses the "Charged Fists" option. 2. Hannah then declares an attack with her Enhanced Fists, declares the Sweeping Strike trigger "Sweeping Strike: When resolving, the target suffers +damage." That's how Charged Fists is winding up applying to a melee attack with a Blast effect. 51 minutes ago, Radek said: As it says "models damaged" indicating plural form and not only target? Or page 30 of rulebook : The damage a model suffers from a blast is unaffected by effects that increase the damage the original target suffered from the attack. means blast damage is never increased? The page 30 reference: Quote The damage a model suffers from a is unaffected by effects that increase the damage the original target suffered from the attack. Attack Actions that target friendly models do not generate . is covering things like Critical Strike: Quote Critical Strike: When resolving, the target suffers +1 damage for each in this Action's final duel total (to a maximum of +2). The other models taking damage from the blast aren't affected by Critical Strike's +1 (and there are enough games that have weird pseudo-targeting area effect rules that the page 30 rule is there for a a good reason. Malifaux doesn't have "secondary targets", and that's there so they don't argue about it.) But, to be blunt, "Charged Fists" isn't a well formed ability. "Models damaged by _____" is a perfectly workable way of introducing side effects like "Push models damaged by this Action up to 1" in any direction" or "Models damaged by this Action gain Poison +1." But "Models damaged .. suffer +1 damage" just sort of makes me want to cry. That part of the effect, specified in that way, doesn't work. Because that's time travel, and cannot work without blood feuds the way the damage steps are specified. I wonder if at some point it was "Target suffers +1 damage and models damaged by ... are Pushed" and that got smushed together. So, personally, I don't have any idea who is supposed to suffer that +1 damage. Here are the main possibilities as I see it: You add 1 to each one of the damage steps, so an A/B/C damage profile becomes (A+1)/(B+1)/(C+1). Then you follow the blast rules, and as a result if you flip week the other models suffer 1 damage, not 1+1 Only the target suffers +1 damage, and everyone suffers the push effect. Dramatization for the third option, that I won't even try to list: "I take two damage, armor reduces it by 2 to 1, and now you're claiming I add after that?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kharnage Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 I would argue that Critical Strike, Necrotic Decay, and whatever other "target suffers +X damage" is specifically what that rule concerning blast damage references, as 15 minutes ago, solkan said: The damage a model suffers from a is unaffected by effects that increase the damage the original target suffered from the attack. And as such, because of the carte blanche "models damaged" verbiage from Charged Fists, it's not an effect that specifically increases the damage the original target suffered, but for all models the melee attack damages, ergo, the blast damage is increased. You could argue that because the target is among the models damaged, ergo it's an effect that increases the damage the original target suffered, ergo the extra models are protected by the rule, but that seems kind of... pedantic. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ogid Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 12 hours ago, solkan said: You add 1 to each one of the damage steps, so an A/B/C damage profile becomes (A+1)/(B+1)/(C+1). Then you follow the blast rules, and as a result if you flip week the other models suffer 1 damage, not 1+1 This is indeed an odd case... This isn't a trigger, it's a action that boost the model's actions/abilities in some way; the problem is that as @solkan said, the wording in this one isn't clear. It's not stated in this one, but the +X damage effects are "when resolving" effects, so I guess this would be intended to work as cited above (only the primary target get the extra damage). However the wording is really weird, so it could be the other way around... I guess an official word here would be helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Radek
If Hannah copy Arik (strongarm suit) bonus action, does Charged Fists work with blast damage?
As it says "models damaged" indicating plural form and not only target?
Or page 30 of rulebook :
The damage a model suffers from a blast is unaffected by effects that increase the damage the original target suffered from the attack.
means blast damage is never increased?
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