Terrifying is so terrifying...

[Lidiaz]

Hello guys !!

Last game, I was vs Dreamer crew.
And, I know how hard it is to make rules, balanced rules more. And in Malifaux, most of crews and models are balanced. Exept neverborn and DREAMER crew.

Terrifying is over cheated, pass a TN to make an action, for every action, and if you fail, the action fail ?? Really ?
Exemple : Ophelia the kin, shot 4 times on teddy, only one hit to do 1 damage...

There is a problem or not ?

Maybe the rules should be "if fail, -2 to the stat"...

Am I the only one thinking terrifying is cheated and too hard ? 😢

[Adran]

In answer to your question, I don't think terrifying is a problem.

It does require you to change your game plan to deal with it though. As do most defensive abilities.

So if you just make 4 attacks without the hand to support having to pass those extra checks, then yes, it doesn't surprise me that you only hit once. Don't do that! (Especially when every failed test could heal Teddy!) Maximise your resources. Spend an action focusing before you attack a terrifying model, so that when you do have to cheat the terrifying flip, you are getting a good attack and quite likely to have a cheatable damage flip.

Look at the resource costs of your actions. 4 attacks against Teddy is likely to force Ophelia to cheat once or twice just to pass the terrifying checks. On average you have hand of 6 cards, you can expect 2 moderate., 2 weak and 2 severe. Your plan of attack will probably remove your 2 moderate cards just for permission to attack. And you're then likely to do weak damage, which with Teddies armour is only 1 damage each time. You will probably get a better outcome if you concentrate then spend that Focus on the 1 attack, so you have possibly only cost yourself 1 moderate, got a positive attack flip, meaning you are less likely to have to cheat that flip, and most likely are on a straight damage flip, so even if you have to cheat that second moderate you are still doing 3 damage after Armour. And Ophelia has 1 extra action and her bonus action still do to other things.

Should you get walking arsenal attacks feel free to spend the attack targeting something else if you don't have the hand to keep attacking teddy safely, then discarding the upgrade to itself to do that extra 1 damage to teddy.

[Lidiaz]

True for the post, sorry.
So can you move this post to the good section on the forum ? Thanks.

 

And, you are right for the focus condition, I just never think to do it. The positif flip, will be for terrifying + duel + damage, right ?
But, I still think this crew is too OP, Terrifying, armor, incorporel, shield... Too much.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Adran has some great tips above, but for a general tip about the Dreamer: his crew loves it when your own resources (like cards in hand) are struggling. But if you can turn the corner and pressure his resources, he really struggles. He is not resource efficient at all (card wise, stacking focus, scheming... It all is a bit inefficient other than lots of numbers and hitting hard).

Aim for fewer, harder hitting attacks (which focus helps with). Also don't waste your time throwing attacks willy-nilly at targets. If you don't have enough resources to take down Teddy, maybe shoot a step lower. Widow weaver, Bandersnatch, and even Dreamer are sometimes squishier targets. Teddy is a tank; the Dreamer is usually pretty happy if you're hitting Teddy instead of the squishier targets.

Also, Ruthless is very good against terrifying. Even a few ruthless models will save you tons of resources. Check out what your faction has for ruthless.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Lidiaz said:

True for the post, sorry.
So can you move this post to the good section on the forum ? Thanks.

 

And, you are right for the focus condition, I just never think to do it. The positif flip, will be for terrifying + duel + damage, right ?
But, I still think this crew is too OP, Terrifying, armor, incorporel, shield... Too much.

The positive flip from focus will apply to the opposed duel and the damage flip, but not the terrifying flip. You don't spend the focus until after you have passed the terrifying duel.

Saying a crew is overpowered, when you aren't using one of the best solutions to their defensive technology, does not give me confidence that you have spent a lot of time trying to work out how to beat them. There is a big difference between facing a crew when you don't know what they are doing, and being badly beaten and facing a crew that you do know what they are doing and being badly beaten.

Another option is to look to adding Ruthles models to your own crew, to just Bypass the terrifying entirely. Gators and Pigapults are both versatile ruthless models 

(EDIT) and of course there is a general upgrade to add ruthless to anyone you like (up to 2 models)

I personally find one of the best ways to find out how to beat a crew is to try playing them myself. That often shows me what parts of the game they struggle with, and where extra pressure on the crew really matters. You also get to see how other people deal with it.

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Lidiaz said:

Last game, I was vs Dreamer crew.
And, I know how hard it is to make rules, balanced rules more. And in Malifaux, most of crews and models are balanced. Exept neverborn and DREAMER crew.

Lol. Not the best way to start interacting with the comunity imo... there are a lot of good factions/crews out of there and a lot of mechanics that will destroy a player who don't know how to play versus it.

Wait until you try to man fight the unkillable Yan-Lo, the "your-defensive-tech-give-me-powa!" Shenlong, the "pulse-for-the-win" Pale rider, the "do-you-really-want-to-get-near-of-that-idol?" Zoraida, the "you-can't-touch-me" Colette crew or a good Viktorias/Nekima alpha strike among other very powerful mechanics.

1 hour ago, Lidiaz said:

And, you are right for the focus condition, I just never think to do it. The positif flip, will be for terrifying + duel + damage, right ?

@Adran gave you very good tips about how to face Terrifying. If you are playing Bayou, which is one of the best factions btw, check the inferiority complex upgrade. Ruthless is another way to get around that defensive tech and Bayou can put that in any of its beaters.

But Focused is only applied to Duel+Damage tho.

1 hour ago, Lidiaz said:

But, I still think this crew is too OP, Terrifying, armor, incorporel, shield... Too much.

Wait until you discover the stitched together "gamble" mechanic... the moaning will be heard in the moon XDD (note: not because it's OP, but you just leave out the most complained feature aobut Dreamer crew)

[Toqtamish]

It is not that bad. 

[nomadicXnightmare]

Ruthless all the way.

[Nikshe]

Shoot them all by Seamus and Vincent. No problems.

[Morgan Vening]

Also, to add to the counters for Terrifying, Blasts (one Terror test isn't that bad, if you can hit 2-4 models with the Action), Pulses, and Shockwaves.

Bayou have a decent enough amount of access to Blasts.

Ophelia (w Firecracker Upgrade) and Merris, as well as Wong, have you covered for Shockwaves.

It's hard to search for Pulses, but Somer and Make Me Proud and Pig Eating Grin seem like a decent combination. Somer blows up a Bayou Gremlin, draws a card, which Somer can use for the Terrifying on the shoot action or mitigation of the discard, or can B2C if it's not good enough. Make Me Proud also gets around Incorporeal as it's not an Attack Action.

Another would be Fingers "A Toast!". Also, if you can neutralize Serena, Poison and Burning can have a cumulative effect making an early attack that does get past Terrifying more impactful.

[Jesy Blue]

Also, fight fire with Arthur!

Play another Terrifying crew against them, Jack Daw for example, and watch every one do nothing all game cause Tormented can't get around Terrifying either!

[OracleToronto]

Bayou have our "Inferiority Complex" upgrade which you should always toss on a damage dealing master like Ophelia when facing crews with terrifying. She also gets a lot of work out of the "swagger" rule giving her focus when she walks.