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Myranda and Beast Shape


Mycellanious

Question

My opponents and I have a few question about what happens when Myranda uses Beast Shape. We are pretty confident about our answers, but would like definitive clarification anyway if that is ok.

1. If Myranda uses Beast Shape in a Reckoning game and is killed it is our belief that she is worth 1 point towards Reckoning instead of 2 because she is no longer a Henchman.

2. Similarly, it is our belief that while in beast form Myranda cannot use Soulstones 

3. When Myranda transforms, we believe her current cost is what is used. So for example, were Myranda to turn into a 4 cost Moleman, she could score Hold Up on a 5 cost minion, and that same minion could not score Hold Up on her. 

 

Finally, I believe that Myranda can turn herself into a Jackalope, since the ability simply says "Choose a Beast in this crew's declared faction." So she could become a Jackalope (assuming it has already died because Rare 1) and become Insignificant so that killing her results in no points in Reckoning as well as denying Vendetta if my opponent took it (both the first point if unrevealed, and the last point). Similarly, if Myranda with Explosive Tokens in the form of a Jackalope were killed, the tokens must be discarded and my opponent cannot choose to suck them up with a nearby model because Myranda would count as Insignificant and ignored for the Strat for all purposes. 

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1) Correct, she's not a henchman after she transforms by the replace rules.  Of note though, by those same replace rules she IS still a leader.  So she might be worth 3 points if the beast dies.

2) Correct also, for the reason you stated.

3) Yes* Note that schemes like vendetta do not suddenly become invalid once you change over though, you are still the vendetta target because replace specifically says you are always a legal target of that effect.

Edited by Clement
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42 minutes ago, Clement said:

 

3) Yes* Note that schemes like vendetta do not suddenly become invalid once you change over though, you are still the vendetta target because replace specifically says you are always a legal target of that effect.

But if Myranda turns into the Jackalope she becomes insignificant. How does that interact with Vendetta?

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3 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

But if Myranda turns into the Jackalope she becomes insignificant. How does that interact with Vendetta?

The replace rules specifically say the new model becomes the target of any effects that targeted or chose the original model such as Schemes, Leader designation, or lasting game effects. The new model is always considered a legal target for those effects.

Because it always has to be a legal target of the effect, it has to be able to give up points/bombs etc. when it dies.

I know this got kicked around back on the beta forums, but we can't get there now sadly.

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I think the answer to “Myranda uses Beast Form to become a totem” is “No, you can’t”.  

Quote

A Totem can only be hired if the linked Master is also in the Crew. If this Master is a Crew’s Leader, the Totem’s Cost is considered to be 0 during hiring.
During gameplay, a Totem can only be Summoned if the linked Master is still in play and in the Crew.

Because why would Replace be less restrictive than Summon effects or hiring?

 

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@solkan, but it doesn't say you can't replace the model with a totem. Only that you can't summon it. Why wouldn't replace be less restrictive?

The only thing i can think of is "If a Summoning or Replace effect would add a model that would take a player over this limit, the model is simply not added to the game."

So if a totem's model limit is changed to 0, that would have the effect of making it so you can't use a replace effect to make a totem. But otherwise, I'm not sure there is anything preventing you from doing it?

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3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Even if this were the case, it would only cover situations where Myranda is an OOK hire or Marcus has been killed.

The Blood Hunter is a beast; pretty useless in a Marcus crew, but a beast after all.

The Jackalope case is a good idea if she is badly hurt because it would give her a Demise(Eternal) but that beast's Wds are 4, so in the best case she would be at 6 when returning to Myranda. If she is very low another good shift would be Azde (playing her from NVB), it has a buit in "drink blood" trigger, Shimmering Lights to make charges less effectives and having 7 Wds it might let her be at full health when shapeshifting back.

I see @solkan point... but unless I'm missing something there is nothing in the rules stopping her from doing it. It could be intended or an overlook.

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Just now, diki said:

Sorry, I'm cuffused what point you are making though.

Totem rules only talk about hiring or summoning - not replacing
"During gameplay, a Totem can only be Summoned if the linked Master is still in play and in the Crew."

 

Santaclaws original comment you quoted was in response to a comment about replace rules should be as restrictive as summoning rules. But even if they were it would only apply if Marcus was not in play, so doesn't really help with answering the question, is the point that was being made (as I see it).

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