Yasunori and Chasing Advantage Timing

[Kharnage]

Yasunori's Chasing Advantage reads: "For every two cards in the opposing player's Control Hand (rounded down), this model adds +m to its final duel totals."
If I had 4 cards in hand at the start of a duel to hit Yasunori, and then cheat to hit him, leaving me with only 3 cards, rounded down to 2 for the purposes of this ability, does he now only have 1 extra mask to add to the duel, where he had two masks at the start of the duel? I can't find a timing rule that says that isn't updated "in real time", but I'm not the best at finding obscure rules. 

[Adran]

From what I can tell it is only at the determine final duel total step that you add the suits, so it is after you have cheated.

[solkan]

38 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

I can't find a timing rule that says that isn't updated "in real time", but I'm not the best at finding obscure rules. 

The duel total is calculated three times during the duel process.

• The last paragraph of Step B, which produces a current duel total
• Step D, Determine Final Duel Total. "Players then add their stat, the value and suit of the card in the Conflict, and any additional suits or modifiers together to determine their final duel total. Players must inform their opponent of their final duel total."
• The first sentence of Step F: "Players must recalculate their final duel total based on any Triggers that have been declared."

The final duel total is after cheating, and then recalculate it after triggers if that changes anything.

So you don't calculate the final duel total in real time, but the distinction doesn't matter because you don't calculate it until after cheating and you'd recalculate it if somehow a declared trigger resulted in a hand size change.  For example, discarding a card to declare a trigger because of Counterspell.  (Dawn Serpent has Counterspell, so it's actually relevant for more than just three player games...)

 

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, solkan said:

The duel total is calculated three times during the duel process.

• The last paragraph of Step B, which produces a current duel total
• Step D, Determine Final Duel Total. "Players then add their stat, the value and suit of the card in the Conflict, and any additional suits or modifiers together to determine their final duel total. Players must inform their opponent of their final duel total."
• The first sentence of Step F: "Players must recalculate their final duel total based on any Triggers that have been declared."

The final duel total is after cheating, and then recalculate it after triggers if that changes anything.

So you don't calculate the final duel total in real time, but the distinction doesn't matter because you don't calculate it until after cheating and you'd recalculate it if somehow a declared trigger resulted in a hand size change.  For example, discarding a card to declare a trigger because of Counterspell.  (Dawn Serpent has Counterspell, so it's actually relevant for more than just three player games...)

 

Yasunori will only check when it reaches a Final duel total (so step D and F).  I don't think you can prevent a trigger declared in step E by making them have a different duel total in step F, but I suppose the number of in step F is what will matter for the unnatural reflexes trigger.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Yasunori will only check when it reaches a Final duel total (so step D and F).  I don't think you can prevent a trigger declared in step E by making them have a different duel total in step F, but I suppose the number of in step F is what will matter for the unnatural reflexes trigger.

Yeah, I agree that a declared trigger isn't retroactively cancelled because its suit is no longer in the duel total (so Yasunori can't be denied an Onslaught trigger).  

But both Unnatural Reflexes and the Chaos Unleashed triggers reference "number of in this model's final duel total".  So those two effects would lose a point when the number of suits granted by Chasing Advantage dropped.

That'll probably happen just frequently enough to give people another excuse to be annoyed at Yasunori.