Need help for next game

[Giovanni Canzanella]

Hello guys!

As in the title, I would love some tips & advices for my next game. This is the setup:

Standard Deployment
Strategy: Reckoning
Scheme pool: Detonate charges, Deliver a message, Breakthrough, Power Ritual, Vendetta

I don't know what faction I'm going to play against, but I will probably bring Jack Daw or Parker Barrows.
Honestly, I think that Parker and the Bandits could be more efficient in this setup, but still I would love to hear your advices for the Schemes and the lists for both Jack and Parker. What would you choose for a game like this?
 

If I should choose Parker, I would probably go for Deliver a Message and Breakthrough and a list like this

Parker (+Wanted Criminal)
Doc  Michell
Mad Dog Brackett
Wouku Raider (+Servant of Dark Powers)
3 Bandidos
Hodgepodge Emissary
4SS

No idea about Jack Daw though. What do you think?

 

 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Like most games this will probably all go out the window once you see the board and opponent's crew.  So what can you focus on without that information?  Schemes that the crew can do well or can deny well.  

I don't play Daw, so can't talk about that, but I like the way you are going with Parker so far.

Strat: Reckoning

Mad Dog, Wouku, Sue, Convict gunslinger, Midnight stalker are all decent for this. Kill.

Schemes: Detonate Charges

This isn't a bad scheme as parker can make a friendly model put down a scheme easy enough, and Hodgey can get one down with his push.  The trick is to not need to pick them up for all the fast, so its a give or take. Prospector is good here too (more below). Ultimately, you'll need to see if the strat or scheme is going to be easier to focus because these counter each other a bit by leaving people alive to get that second point.

Deliver a message: Also a bit counter productive if you're trying to get kills, but some masters are tough to take down. Parker's crew has good mobility so you should get into contact easy enough and again Parker can make someone take the interact action to get that message delivered.

Breakthrough: Midnight stalker, Bandidos, wouku are all good options.  This for me always depends on the board a lot.

Power Ritual: If your scheme runners can beat up his, this is a good option into reckoning, if the other way around, you don't want them sitting still.

Vendetta: Can get a point or two from a bandido, but they also die so quick. This one clearly relies on the other team composition.

 

Overall, your crew choice is pretty good.  I might swap a bandido for a prospector. You'll start down a stone, but gain it first turn and it will make detonate the charges both easier for you and harder for the opponent, which means you can focus on denying the other options more and they have to think what you might do more.  So I'd swap a bandido and then make the wouku the flex model with sue (or convict GS as preferred) or midnight stalker, as suits against the other team.

 

[Giovanni Canzanella]

5 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Overall, your crew choice is pretty good.  I might swap a bandido for a prospector. You'll start down a stone, but gain it first turn and it will make detonate the charges both easier for you and harder for the opponent, which means you can focus on denying the other options more and they have to think what you might do more.  So I'd swap a bandido and then make the wouku the flex model with sue (or convict GS as preferred) or midnight stalker, as suits against the other team.

 

Thanks a lot for your precious advices. I was indeed tempted to take Sue  for  extra fire-power, and leaving out the Emissary. 
Then, I've thought  tha Hans might be an interesting choice to deny my opponent Breakthrough or Power Rituals.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Ya, Hans is a great situational hire.  If the sight lines are there, he could be very useful to deny and assist with the strategy. Just depends who you need as your work horses and who will be ok on the fringe.

[Jesy Blue]

Detonate Charges is dangerous with Parker because with the number of enemy scheme markers you drop, you can sometimes catch yourself in the scheme for your opponent.

Breakthrough is stupid easy with Parker, so easy they know you're doing it when you declare Parker.  So go for the obvious easy points or make them think your going for the obvious easy points.

Vendetta can be done well with Bandido if you can utilize Trigger Finger appropriately.

[Giovanni Canzanella]

Ok, so the game didn't go as planned.
The guy used Nekima and I lost 4-3 (I scored 2 points in Reckoning and 1 in Breakthrough). The other Scheme was Deliver a Message, no VP for that.

My list was 

Parker (+Wanted Criminal)
Doc  Michell
Mad Dog Brackett
Wouku Raider
2 Bandidos
Prospectors
Hodgepodge Emissary

Even if I lost, I'm frankly happy how the Bandits managed to hold off the demons.
First turn,  2 adults Nephilim and Hayreddin charged right into the Wouku Raider to score Vendetta. But, thanks to the Hodgepodge Emissary and Mad Dog Brackett, the Raider survived (I didn't imagine he could survive to such a furious attack). I managed to take down an adult Naphilim and the Henchman by Turn 3.
Sadly though, all of this fight took all of my resources, cards and SS and I found myself pushed tight into my deployment zone, which madetty hard for me to score Breakthrough.
In the end, my opponent had to use Neekima to score 1 point  of Power Ritual while Mad Dog ran all the way across the field to score 1 point of Breakthrough. I lost 2 Bandidos and the Prospector, he lost 2 Adult nephilim and the Henchman, which honestly is an unexpected result.

Nekima was NEVER in fight, except with the Prospector that died before he could score Deliver a message. After that, Nekima was always too far away from me (and he moves so freaking fast) and I didn't want to risk Parker to score the Deliver a message.  All in all, I'm not that mad about the game considering what I was facing (for the records, I never faced a Nekima before, so I had no idea of her mechanics with the Corpse markers...otherwise I would have take good old Sue).
Poor choice of schemes by me: the Nephilims are just too fast to allow me scoring Breakthrough.

A last word about Prospectors: are they really THAT good with Parker?  Good old Parker is not that hungry for SS, and honestly those 3 extra SS I got from the Prospector didn't really swing the game in my favour.  I found myself regretting not taking Sue....
I probably used the guy poorly, having him  behind a building next to Parker for 3 turns, doing nothing but generating SS, before Neekima flew over him to eat him with one single attack (a lucky flip and a Focus).
I would love some tips on how to correctly use those guys in the future. 

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

1 hour ago, JellyRoll said:

I lost 2 Bandidos and the Prospector, he lost 2 Adult nephilim and the Henchman

The Wouku lived?!  I'd have thought the black blood would have killed him off, so impressive.  That combat finesse is mighty fine.

Nekima is definitely a strong pick into reckoning and against gunslingers like parker, they close the gap well.  That said, the strategy would be to put bandidos and the wouku in places as bait, where mad dog, and parker and the others can take shots at whoever comes in for the kill.  Emmisary is pretty tanky and a good roadblock. He can push himself or others out of combat, leaving an activated nephalim sitting pretty to get blasted to hell.  Suits for triggers on mad dog and making sure the cheaper models like bandidos leave a scheme near him for Fast is helpful.  I usually have one bandido scheme, then run and gun for movement and a possible shot.

I'm not sure what happened that Mad dog had to do all the running himself, sadly that took a lot of your firepower away from the crew.  The other key is trying to get Trigger Finger off on both bandidos, before they die. 

As for the prospector, I'd have used him as bait too or a scheme runner.  Having him sit around waiting isn't doing you any good.  The soulstones are nice, but Nekima needs a target to flush her into the line of fire.  If you'd been able to put 2-3 people focusing a single model it is probably dead.

Sounds like you blew your resources all pretty quickly.  So advice here is just to think if its worth it or let whatever it is die/take the hit and use the cards/ss to punish later.  That just comes with playing the game.

[Alerteddonkey42]

16 hours ago, JellyRoll said:

First turn,  2 adults Nephilim and Hayreddin charged right into the Wouku Raider to score Vendetta

Remember that you can't score turn 1!

[Giovanni Canzanella]

18 hours ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

The Wouku lived?!  I'd have thought the black blood would have killed him off, so impressive.  That combat finesse is mighty fine.

Yes, the Wokou Raider survived with just 1 Hitpoint, incredibly but true.
In Turn 2, I had to cheat a 13 on initiative to bring her out (she had a Scheme Marker next to her, so she was Fast).
She regenerated 1 hitpoint for the Hodgepodge Emissary  and once she was away from the fray, the Emissary took good care of her  with a double heal: in the end she recovered 6 hitpoints out of 8. I loved the Emissary SO MUCH in that moment. Him and the Raider were definitely the MVP this game.

 

18 hours ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Nekima is definitely a strong pick into reckoning and against gunslingers like parker, they close the gap well.  That said, the strategy would be to put bandidos and the wouku in places as bait, where mad dog, and parker and the others can take shots at whoever comes in for the kill. 

Indeed that was the plan...that's how I lost all of my Scheme Runners 🤣

I definitely underestimated Neekima's damage, that was just too much for them to handle

Quote

I'm not sure what happened that Mad dog had to do all the running himself, sadly that took a lot of your firepower away from the crew.  The other key is trying to get Trigger Finger off on both bandidos, before they die. 

Well, it happened that the Woukou Raider had to be defensive, since she was the target for Vendetta, I couldn't expose her without risking.
Then, as I said, the 2 Bandidos were dead and so was the Prospector. Basically I had no Scheme Runner available by Turn 4
Unlucky flips didn't allow me to trigger a single Trigger Finger  in the whole game, incredible that might sound.
Turn by Turn, Mad Dog just walked forward , shooting his gun at everything in sight, until he managed to reach enemy deployment zone in Turn 5, uncontested (he was full life and with Vitality Potion upgrade on him...honestly only Neekima could have stopped him).

Quote

Sounds like you blew your resources all pretty quickly.  So advice here is just to think if its worth it or let whatever it is die/take the hit and use the cards/ss to punish later.  That just comes with playing the game.

That's exactly what happened. Resources -and luck- were deplenished very fast in first 2 Turns. 

 

3 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said:

Remember that you can't score turn 1!

Holy Dark Mother...I keep forgetting this!!! This means that the game actually finished 3-3...which is pretty consolatory.

[Ogid]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:44 AM, JellyRoll said:

First turn,  2 adults Nephilim and Hayreddin charged right into the Wouku Raider to score Vendetta.

There is something weird there... wokou raiders cost 8 points, matures are 10 and Hayreddin 8; none of these are legal targets for a vendetta versus your wokou; unless somehow the Nephillim player had enought actions to grow a mature and use that mature to deal damage to the Wouku in the first turn... which is unlikely. Or you meant Young Nephillims, the ones that costs 7 SS.

 

5 hours ago, JellyRoll said:

Yes, the Wokou Raider survived with just 1 Hitpoint, incredibly but true.
In Turn 2, I had to cheat a 13 on initiative to bring her out (she had a Scheme Marker next to her, so she was Fast).
She regenerated 1 hitpoint for the Hodgepodge Emissary  and once she was away from the fray, the Emissary took good care of her  with a double heal: in the end she recovered 6 hitpoints out of 8. I loved the Emissary SO MUCH in that moment. Him and the Raider were definitely the MVP this game.

Haha, awesome! That player got jebaited hard tho, focusing that many attacks in the model with the best defensive tech versus attacks wasn't the best choice imo. Any other minion would had been much easier to kill than the wokou (both matures have fly with me and flight to bypass it; Hayreddin only Flight). O even diving and using their 2 range to tie as many bandits as they could (gunfighter is only range 1 and some like mad dog and bandido have range 0) while killing something would had been a better choice.

5 hours ago, JellyRoll said:

Turn by Turn, Mad Dog just walked forward , shooting his gun at everything in sight, until he managed to reach enemy deployment zone in Turn 5, uncontested (he was full life and with Vitality Potion upgrade on him...honestly only Neekima could have stopped him).

Like a boss XDD. However this was a pretty big mistake from the Neph player; Mad dog is very dangerous at range but his mele is 0 and he has NO gunfighter; even a young Neph may control him long enough to deny the scheme (not saying that young would get out alive tho) and Hayreddin or a mature would had been a fair match in a 1v1.

 

I'm not that into Outcast but I'd had changed the emissary for something else tho. With the effigy you could have a bit of healing and can upgrade something to other models like Taelor or Barbaros (immune to black blood, cage Fighter, armor, challenge, a lure...), Pride (debuffer, anti-cheating and with some defensive tech), Johan (good damage, range 2 and flurry), Arik (counter the flight and fly with me with Gravity well, black blood may give him focused and diving charge to counter the range) or even the nothing beast could had been a good pick (range 2, good mele damage and some burying shenanigans to send some nephillims to the exile).

[Giovanni Canzanella]

10 minutes ago, Ogid said:

There is something weird there... wokou raiders cost 8 points, matures are 10 and Hayreddin 8; none of these are legal targets for a vendetta versus your wokou; unless somehow the Nephillim player had enought actions to grow a mature and use that mature to deal damage to the Wouku in the first turn... which is unlikely. Or you meant Young Nephillims, the ones that costs 7 SS.

 

Dang...I'm 100% sure it was a Mature Nephilim.
My opponent didn't have cards on table, he used the game app, so I never got the chance to actually LOOK at his cards. What a huge mistake by me...
Honestly, this is one of the MANY weird things my opponent did during the game. That could be a mistake in good conscience...or a deliberate try to cheat. I'm not so sure anymore, but thanks a lot for pointing this out. Next time I play against him I will be more attentive, too many things went weirdly wrong during that game.

16 minutes ago, Ogid said:

However this was a pretty big mistake from the Neph player; Mad dog is very dangerous at range but his mele is 0 and he has NO gunfighter; even a young Neph may control him long enough to deny the scheme (not saying that young would get out alive tho) and Hayreddin or a mature would had been a fair match in a 1v1.

To be honest and fair, he DID engaged Mad Dog with his Mature Nephilim, but thanks to my Scheme Markers, Mad Dog gained Fast at the start of his activation. This way he had time to disengage and fire 2 times at the Nephilim (that got killed by the Woukou Raider in the same turn).
Hayreddin was the next victim of Mad Dog's shotgun (already damaged by Mad Dog's blast), so there was nobody left to hold Mad Dog, except Nekima herself, too busy dealing with Parker.

 

22 minutes ago, Ogid said:

'm not that into Outcast but I'd had changed the emissary for something else tho.

Totally legit...but after he saved my Woukou (and the game with it), I'm pretty sure I will use him in EVERY game, from now on

[Ogid]

18 minutes ago, JellyRoll said:

Dang...I'm 100% sure it was a Mature Nephilim.
My opponent didn't have cards on table, he used the game app, so I never got the chance to actually LOOK at his cards. What a huge mistake by me...
Honestly, this is one of the MANY weird things my opponent did during the game. That could be a mistake in good conscience...or a deliberate try to cheat. I'm not so sure anymore, but thanks a lot for pointing this out. Next time I play against him I will be more attentive, too many things went weirdly wrong during that game.

I guess you can give him the benefice of the doubt... however next time ask him to send the list to you; if he share it you can have his list in your App and can check his cards at any time.

26 minutes ago, JellyRoll said:

To be honest and fair, he DID engaged Mad Dog with his Mature Nephilim, but thanks to my Scheme Markers, Mad Dog gained Fast at the start of his activation. This way he had time to disengage and fire 2 times at the Nephilim (that got killed by the Woukou Raider in the same turn).
Hayreddin was the next victim of Mad Dog's shotgun (already damaged by Mad Dog's blast), so there was nobody left to hold Mad Dog, except Nekima herself, too busy dealing with Parker.

It sounds as a fun game 

My thoughts: I guess it's easy to talk after knowing the outcome, however I find sending only a few Nephs into the full enemy crew risky, specially if you were prepared with schemes around and without bringing Nekima who is a powerhouse. Nephs are fast and hit hard but aren't that resilient, specially matures versus ranged weapons. Growing matures and pulse focused before engaging would had better than straight up rushing in this situation imo; but a rush could work as long as the whole crew go as one. Nekima was needed in the fray imo, giving Parker a possible point of deliver a message is well worth it the carnage she is able to do. I'd had picked full combat mode schemes: Vendetta (one of the growth BBS to mature, probably Mad Dog) and Deliver a Message (only hopping to get 1 point out of this last one unless the game goes extremelly well and Parker can be isolated and controlled.