Help me to choose my faction

[Zec-Lot]

Hi Guys

I'm thinking about starting with Malifaux, but I have no idea which starter box to buy. I hope you can help me a little with my decision.

 

Can you tell me something about the playstyle, powerlevel and must have models to expand of the following boxes:

-Rasputina Box

-Lynch Box

-Dreamer Box

-Misaki Box

- upcoming Nekima Box?

 

PS: I'm sorry if my grammar is wrong, English is not my native language.

[Adran]

Welcome

You will get all sorts of advice, and some will be completely opposed to others. But here is my (very rough) guide.

Firstly - go with the models that look interesting to you. Look at the first crew you play as the crew for you to learn the game. Once you have learnt the game you might find they still are what you want, you might not, but there is no need to go out and buy everything. The future purchases are based on how I play the game. There will be many other options and the best will depend on how you play the game, so if you can hold off until you've had a few games and know where you want to improve the crew you will do better.

 

Rasputina - Her crew is a slow moving area damage/control crew. She covers the board in Ice pillars which she can use to draw line of sigth for her attacks, and they also cause problems for the opponent.  She is also good at doing area damage. Early purchased needed - something fast. There are a lot of options as to what this is, from Snowstorm with several movement tricks for your crew, to Acolytes with From the Shadows, The blessed of December with Leap or Ice dancers with Don't mind me and Ice path.

Jacob Lynch. -  A hand manipulation crew. The  models all let you look/re-arrange your deck, and the crew get stronger as it faces enemies with Brilliance. Early purchase  - Depleted if you're having fun with Jacob's summoning, Otherwise I'd probably look to Tannen and Graves.

Dreamer - A summoner with deck alteration powers. Most of his crew have the ability to alter your deck. I would recommend Stitched together and Insidious madness as early purchases (possibly also daydreams if you get the M3 box, they do appear in the M2 box)

Misaki - A ninja, popping out to kill what she needs and then disappearing again. I'm not sure what to recommend for her, generally anything with Last Blossom is probably good.

Nekima - A close range killing machine. She also grows her crew into bigger versions. I don't know exactly what the crew box will contain, but you will want to have Terror tots, Mature Nephlim, Young Nephlim, Black Blood shamen and Lelu and Lelitu.

 

Good luck and have fun

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing that can be good is to buy a core box and play some small games. Then fill out the crew a bit more. By starting small, you can still easily swap crews if you want.

I think it's overall better to specialise in one faction if you're likely to attend any tournaments (they usually restrict you to one faction). Off that basis, perhaps lean towards the Ten Thunders since they have two crews you like. However, that's just one aspect to consider of course!

I don't know the TT models very well, but I can tell you about Dreamer:

He is a summoning master with loads of movement tricks in his crew. His crew gets stronger the longer the game goes on, so he is very good at attrition and grinding out games. His crew has some interesting angles, but at its core, it is just a 'overwhelm with numbers' crew due to the summoning mechanic. Unfortunately, as a summoner, you really need all of his minions to play the crew at full capacity. Additionally, the crew is really more effective if you have at least a few of the henchmen/enforcers. At a minimum, you'd probably want at least two of them, but really four of them is better to have in your collection. It is a heavy investment to get into the Dreamer, although you can get a taste of his playstyle with just the core box.

As a counter example, I play Molly and find the crew very effective with her core set + one enforcer + one set of minions. Some crews just don't require as many purchases.

All that said, Dreamer is crazy cool and I am considering making him my primary master for tournaments. So I definitely recommend him! His enforcers just bring so much to the table, you get a huge amount of variety just in one keyword. He can handle every strategy/scheme combination (although struggles on scheme-marker ones a bit).

[ebolazaire]

58 minutes ago, Zec-Lot said:

PS: I'm sorry if my grammar is wrong, English is not my native language.

Off-topic reply, apologies.

Your English is fine, you really don't need to be worried about it!

[Ogid]

Hi, Welcome! I'm going to copy paste here the answer I did to a very simmilar question:

In a nutsell: This is a skirmish game, you gain points by completing schemes and strategies, the player with more points at the end of 5 turns win the game.

Important points: Both players take turns to activate models (it's not the typical "I move all my dudes, then I go for a beer while you move yours"), you make your list after knowing the schemes and strategies and the enemy leader (so having a few extra model to being able to adapt your list is necessary).

Being a newbie myself, what I did (adapted to the new tools we got now):

• I Read the rulebook, at least twice (you can download it from wyrd's webpage)
• Downloaded all the M3e cards (get the App, In Wyrd's page there are missing cards in the dropbox link). In the wyrd's webpage you can also check the creed members for each keyword (click in each master)
• Went through all the cards using the App, read all the cards from 1 keyword together to understand the playstyle of that Master. Take this step easy, depending on your free time it can take days or weeks.
• And then you can get your master and spend a few bucks getting the core box + 1 or 2 boxes to get some options. Get the one you like the most, but be sure you also like the faction because you will probably get at least 1 or 2 extra masters from that faction to have some flexibility.

If there is some people around your area playing Malifaux, it won't be a bad idea to ask them to make an introductory game.

Here you have my own newbie thread:

I know there are people who split between 2 or more Factions, I'd recommend you to focus in just 1; that will give you the best playability for the least money invested in the game (because you can combine those models to create different crews and the versatiles will be usable for all those crews).

You asked for 2 TT masters (Misaki and Lynch), 1 NVB (Dreamer) and 1 ARC (Rasputina); so I'd maybe start checking on those factions to see if I'd also like the playstyle and look of the rest of the masters. All factions are good, it's just personal taste.

Maybe we could recommend you better with a bit more of info. Which playstyle do you prefer (rush, glass cannon, slow but tough, high mobility, high control, direct clashing, avoid enemy and focus in scoring...)? Which aesthetic do you like the most (robots and guys with cyberarms, mystical dudes, pretty ladies, dead pretty ladies, Nightmares, angry forces of nature, Goblins, undead, just humans...)?

Hope it helps!

[Zec-Lot]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Maybe we could recommend you better with a bit more of info. Which playstyle do you prefer (rush, glass cannon, slow but tough, high mobility, high control, direct clashing, avoid enemy and focus in scoring...)? Which aesthetic do you like the most (robots and guys with cyberarms, mystical dudes, pretty ladies, dead pretty ladies, Nightmares, angry forces of nature, Goblins, undead, just humans...)?

I have chosen the masters in my opening post according to the aesthetics. Generally I would say I like monsters and bad guys the most....so probably Neverborn.

My preferred playstyle  are at least a few models with good close combat options. I also like a good bord control and a few magic tricks. I like direct clashing but there should also be some options for objective play. Mobility can be nice, but is not necessary. I completely don't like a pure glass cannon or ranged army.

[Nabijis]

One thing from my side: basically, it's a skirmish tabletop so you will lose crew members in the course of the game. Finally, you'll get NO victory points if your master is still alive at the end of the game (maybe you will get a victory point if you managed to kill the enemy's master or you refuse victory points for the enemy if your master didn't die).

If you have a mind problem when you are loosing crew members (OMG, my beater is down...), you should select crews with high armor, summoning capabilites or adequate demise abilites (like Serena Bowman, YanLo-Crew etc.). Might help

 

[Zec-Lot]

13 minutes ago, Nabijis said:

One thing from my side: basically, it's a skirmish tabletop so you will lose crew members in the course of the game. Finally, you'll get NO victory points if your master is still alive at the end of the game (maybe you will get a victory point if you managed to kill the enemy's master or you refuse victory points for the enemy if your master didn't die).

If you have a mind problem when you are loosing crew members (OMG, my beater is down...), you should select crews with high armor, summoning capabilites or adequate demise abilites (like Serena Bowman, YanLo-Crew etc.). Might help

 

Im coming from Infinity the Game. Objective play and dying teammembers are daily buisness ☕

[Ogid]

From your initial list I'd say Nekima could be a bit glassy for your taste and Lynch focuses in a control play that I don't know if you'd like or not; the other 3 seem a good fit for your favoured playstyle.

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

I have chosen the masters in my opening post according to the aesthetics. Generally I would say I like monsters and bad guys the most....so probably Neverborn.

Ok... from the aesthetic part I'd say NVB, RES or OUT.

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

My preferred playstyle  are at lest a few modells with good close combat options. I also like a good bord control and a few magic tricks. I like direct clashing but there should also be some options for objective play. Mobility can be nice, but is not necessary. I completely don't like a pure glass cannon or ranged army.

I can give some advice about NVB TT and ARC as these are the faction I know better:

NVB: Check Titania and Euripides (both good board control, good close combat and sturdy; not the best schemers but have some tricks), Marcus (Quick and hitty without going full glass, map control through raw speed, good obj play) and maybe Zoraida (Good board control thanks to ranged obey and slippery models) and Dreamer (Good mele models, decent board control through summons)

ARC: Rasputina (good board control, blasts and a few good mele models), Mei Feng (Tough, control board through high mobility, hitty), Marcus (see NVB) and Sandeep (summoner, tough golems and good schemers, very good double master with Raspy, Kaeris or Mei Feng)... probably also Hoffman (lot of armor, good mele and some fast models) and maybe Kaeris (good board control but mostly ranged and glassy... so not sure about this one).

TT: Misaki (almost global mobility, versatile crew with a bit of everything, mele, ranged, schemers, not the toughest tho), Mei Feng(see ARC), Asami (Probably best summons in the game, hitty and with good schemers), Yan-Lo (one of the toughest crews in the game, good mele and some decent runners; not that much board control tho)... maybe Shenlong (master can fight anything and has good schemers, but this crew usually uses a lot of support models so not that much board control)

I'm not that confident with the rest... In OUT you'd probably like Tara, Zipp (both good map control through speed and markers or bury shenanigans), Jack or Leveticus... but there are a lot of glassy and ranged crews in that one, in RES you have tough crews with good mele... maybe you could like Yan-Lo, McMourning, Molly or Reva... Guild is very Shooty in general and I don't know that much bayou to give useful advice.

However those are my opinions! Be sure to go through all of them, maybe you like some crew I didn't covered or you rather one of the Faction I don't know that well.

Hope it helps!

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

I have chosen the masters in my opening post according to the aesthetics. Generally I would say I like monsters and bad guys the most....so probably Neverborn.

My preferred playstyle  are at least a few models with good close combat options. I also like a good bord control and a few magic tricks. I like direct clashing but there should also be some options for objective play. Mobility can be nice, but is not necessary. I completely don't like a pure glass cannon or ranged army.

It's a shame you don't like ressurectionists; their playstyle would fit you pretty well!

On the bright side, all factions have at least some masters who are good at board control and tricks.

Within Neverborn, there's loads of good combat options. Dreamer will actually fit your playstyle pretty well, and may be worth an attempt. His tricks are a bit hard to pull off, though. They involve lining up a few different criteria, but he can do things like teleport other models into spiderwebs, rip people through reality to reposition them. He also has a lot of 2" ranges that are just brutal in combat (you can attack someone at 2", but if their range is 1", they have to spend an action walking to you instead of attacking).

So far with limited knowledge of you, Dreamer seems like a decent "at least read his cards" recommendation. 

[Zec-Lot]

53 minutes ago, Ogid said:

From your initial list I'd say Nekima could be a bit glassy for your taste and Lynch focuses in a control play that I don't know if you'd like or not; the other 3 seem a good fit for your favoured playstyle.

What kind of control play? Could be interesting.

At the moment i tend to Dreamer, Rasputina or Lynch.

We talk many about the dreamer (and he sounds pretty interesting), but what is with the other 2? Specally about Lynch i know nearly nothing.

49 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It's a shame you don't like ressurectionists; their playstyle would fit you pretty well!

Hmm i was thinking about Yan Lo. But to be honest his crew looks pretty weak, basic and not as much badass compared to the Ice Golem, Teddy, the Illuminates or Lord Chompy Bits. Are they really strong closecombat fighters?

[Sybaris]

Nekima has always been about Shock and Awe...speed and applying damage where it needs to go to overwhelm the opponent before it can use its full strength. It's almost a full melee keyword, and the traditional "bad guys" of Malifaux. The idea is that you have the speed to apply damage where it needs to go, and even if your models die, they'll wound back their attacker with the black blood ability, so getting out of a melee fight with Nephilim unscathed is usually hard. Nekima and the Mature Nephilims can hit hard if left to do their thing. The Youngs are your go-to shock trooper. 

It's certainly not the toughest group, but if things go well, you'll regenerate just enough to carry on to the next prey, and inflict more damage. The grow mechanic is not entirely a strategy imho, it's something you carry in the back of your mind in case the right opportunity arises...yet it will scare your opponent (especially if you get a mature up). But that's a bit of a snowball effect, if you're able to grow bad stuff, it's because the game is going your way already. There are some models who will make this easier.

The utility comes with a few models namely Hayreddin, the Black Blood Shaman and the Lilitu...and to some extent Nekima's pig (totem). You'll need to balance your crew between Smash, Scheme & Support to get a good momentum. But overall the keyword is not subtle, which means the opponent can easily know what to expect, they're in your face. We've found it a good one to teach the game because of that.

Lastly, the versatile hybrids of the Neverborn are kind of part of this keyword...at least in theme, because they've been created by Nekima, so if you like Blood wretches, Angel Eyes, Maurice and Tuco...they can bring more variety to your tactics.

 

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

What kind of control play? Could be interesting.

At the moment i tend to Dreamer, Rasputina or Lynch.

We talk many about the dreamer (and he sounds pretty interesting), but what is with the other 2? Specally about Lynch i know nearly nothing.

Hmm i was thinking about Yan Lo. But to be honest his crew looks pretty weak, basic and not as much badass compared to the Ice Golem, Teddy, the Illuminates or Lord Chompy Bits. Are they really strong closecombat fighters?

I havent played against Lynch yet, but my brief understanding is that Lynch is the owner of the Honeypot casino, which opperates by getting its patron addicted to a drug called Brilliance. Lynch's models do nasty things to enemies that they have infected wity Brilliance, including fully corrupting them and turning them into Depleted (Heroin addicts that join your crew). Lynch himself is basicly a warlock, he is host to the ancient, evil entity Hungering Darkess (we all call him Huggy), which is what produces Brilliance in order to attract and cosume human beings. Huggy has the Obey ability, which forces a model (friendly or enemy) to take an Action of your choice... like attacking his friends. Mechanics wise, Lynch and his crew are cheating bastards. They all have the Rig the Deck ability which allows them to draw cards from the top of the deck, swap them with cards from their hand, and/or put them back in any order. This means not only do they know whats going to happen, they can actively change the future according to their own designs to ensure they almost never lose a duel, almost never flip the black joker, and almost always flip the red joker (as opposed to cheating it).

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

What kind of control play? Could be interesting.

At the moment i tend to Dreamer, Rasputina or Lynch.

We talk many about the dreamer (and he sounds pretty interesting), but what is with the other 2? Specally about Lynch i know nearly nothing.

Well, both @Maniacal_cackle and I play NVB and both like Dreamer XD.

Lynch, I'm going to leave some links here:

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/146541-lynch-advice/

Follow that quote to read about one of his main mechanics, rig the deck:

 

On 8/28/2019 at 12:39 PM, Cursed25 said:

knowledge is power! and rig the deck gives you knowledge and control over your deck! This is why it's an amazing ability!

Lynch have a powerful deck manipulation ability in Rig the deck, they don't have a lot of power from minute 1, but they handle Brilliance Tokens (Magical Opium basically); with these tokens his crew gain some bonuses versus them, from extra damage, to defensive flips; Lynch itself may nuke hard a model with a lot of Brilliance. 

They have a good mix between hitting models (Graves, Iluminated...) and controling models (Tannen, Beckoners...) or a mix between them (Hungering, Gwyneth, Lynch) but in general need to build Brilliance in the other team to reach their maximum potential. Lynch is a cheater, so between Rig the Deck and the multiple anti-cheating fate tech, they are usually in control of the duels. I don't play them so I'm not sure how good they are at scheming or how much they have to bubble tho.

 

Rasputina is basically a long range mage with a focus in debuffs (slow) and blast or shockwave attacks. She is squishy and slow, but with her long range and staying near of ice pilars, she is usually fine. Her crew lacks in general movement abilities with the exception of the Blessed of December, Ice Dancers, and the Acolytes (these 2 may start anywhere, but after that they lack any other trick); but you can go OOK to get these if needed anyway. The crew has other very dangerous debuffs like Analyze weaknesses (anule armor), a very powerful anti shooting aura and healers. With all the debuffs, long range attacks and the Ice pilars (blocking terrain) is hard to break her bubble. She advances slowly but it's hard to take back what the winter's witch claimed. It's a crew that like to keep the distances, but in close combat there are a few models that can stand a fight like Snow and the Blessed.

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

Hmm i was thinking about Yan Lo. But to be honest his crew looks pretty weak, basic and not as much badass compared to the Ice Golem, the Illuminates or Lord Chompy Bits. Are they really strong closecombat fighters?

Yan-Lo is one of the toughest crews of the game. He gains stats and extra abilities each turn (check ancesdant upgrades), in turn 3 his effective stats are Df6, Wp7, M5 and all his abilities have an stat of 7. The Ancestors are models that may be resurrected by Yan-Lo again and again; from these Izamu is a ludicrous beater and Toshiro make minions hit very hard. Chiaki (another Ancestor) may attach the reliquaries even when the other models are in the table, which is great to give Yan-Lo a demise ability and some of the reliquaries abilities are pretty powerful (check the reliquary upgrades, Manos's one is one of the best).

So, Yan-Lo become a monster turn after turn and with a few Reliquaries around he is very hard to kill, the best models of his crew cannot be killed because they will just use other disposable models to bring them back (depending on the circunstances, they could even get a second activation in one turn); and those models can just be summoned again or get summoned again after they get replaced... it's not an easy crew to defeat unless you go with a very solid plan and know which targets needs to die asap; and you better don't run out of time and get wreck by Yan-Lo in God mode in turns 4 and 5. And on top of that there are other very good models in the keyword (Retainers are all very solid models), and the reliquaries may be used in OOK models to create nasty combos (I've read about Manos reliquary in Shenlong for example)

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

What kind of control play? Could be interesting.

At the moment i tend to Dreamer, Rasputina or Lynch.

We talk many about the dreamer (and he sounds pretty interesting), but what is with the other 2? Specally about Lynch i know nearly nothing.

Hmm i was thinking about Yan Lo. But to be honest his crew looks pretty weak, basic and not as much badass compared to the Ice Golem, Teddy, the Illuminates or Lord Chompy Bits. Are they really strong closecombat fighters?

The Arcanists as a faction can be described as "cyborgs, mages, and cyborg mages." Raspy's crew unfortunately contains no cyborgs, but she's made something of a habit of freezing the arms off of men, and therefore making them into cyborgs. Like Lynch, Raspy is host to an ancient entity known as December, who is one of the horrific, all-powerful REDACTED DUE TO LORE so yea hes real bad news. Aside from nightmares, corrupting influences, and never being able to drink a glass of water without it turning into ice, December gives Raspy control of the weather. Winter weather specifically. Raspy and her crew are members of the Cult of December, a group that used to abuse women in order to please December. Or stop his return? I was never clear on that. Why call yourself the cult of December, then cut off the tongues of all the women so that December cant possess them? Shouldnt they be the "cultists against December?" Regardless, when Raspy came to power she overthrew the male priests. And then ate them. An uh, eye for an eye I guess? But the effects of their reign are why a lot of members of the cult no longer have tongues, hense the "Silent Ones."

Mechanically, Raspy and her Silent Ones play more like a bunch of static turrets. They probably wont move once you deploy them, instead relying on their long range and their beefy crew mates to keep them alive. Raspy easily has one of the longest ranges of any model in the game. She works by creating chains of ice pillars that act as mirrors for her to cast spells through. she can use a pillar 8 inches away and use spells with a 12" range for a total threat range of a whopping 20" (the board is 36" long and you deploy about 8" forward so there is only about 8" worth of places where Raspy cant immediately effect). In addition, bouncing her spells off of ice mirrors allows Raspy to pull off cool 360 no scope tricks, like shooting around walls. Or over walls since her pillars are massive height 5 markers, but w/e. Basically, there is no where to hide. The point of this is to wear down and halt the enemies advance before they reach you and kill your squishies, and this is where the other purpose of the ice pillars comes in. The pillars are considered Impassible terrain, which means you can use them to block off corridors to physically prevent enemy movement. In addition, if Raspy is your leader, then pillars also give out the Slow condition to enemies that start next to them. You literally are terraforming the map into your own winter hellscape. This, combined with Raspy's numerous Blasts and Shockwaves (types of AoE damage) means that it is a very bad idea to group up against Raspy. But if you split up you risk becoming prey to some of the other tundra hunters... Basically Raspy forces the enemy to choose between several bad decisions. They call raspy a control master, because she Slows (reduce number of actions by 1), Staggers (reduces Move stat by 2), and physically blocks enemy movement. 

If you are interested in Raspy, you should know that M3E has implemented a "counter pick" meta. Because you declare Leader before building your crew, opponents are expected to design their crew around your leader, and unfortunately there are several ways to get around Raspy's tricks. For example, flying models can just ignore her ice pillars and blockers and get straight into your backline. Nephillim is actually an example of a keyword that is strong vs Raspy, lots of hard hitting flyers. In addition, Ice Pillars have the Destructible terrain trait, which means that models within 1" can take an Action to destroy it. This is normally a good thing for Raspy, since an action spent breaking a pillar is an action not spent breaking her face or scoring points, however you will need to be on the lookout for Demolition models. Some models are designed specifically to remove Destructible terrain, such as by using the Blow it to Hell action to remove markers in an AoE. These models should be priority targets for your crew. Since you rely on whittling down and stalling enemies as opposed to nuking them in one hit, it means your opponent will have an opportunity to heal up and press on, but like in any game try to focus the healers first. Finally, because Raspy gives out lots of negative conditions, you can expect your opponent to bring some kind of condition removal, which is also a priority target. You've probably noticed that I've said "priority target" a lot. Determining which problem to deal with now, and which to deal with later is what separates a good Malifaux player from a great. This decision is amplified in a Raspy crew, since from the get-go you have the reach to attack pretty much anyone on the board. 

This is not to say that these counters make Raspy obsolete, or that you shouldnt not play her because they exist, just keep in mind that you will probably see a lot of these and have a strategy for dealing with them. 

 

[Thedeadclaw]

28 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Or stop his return? I was never clear on that. Why call yourself the cult of December, then cut off the tongues of all the women so that December cant possess them? Shouldnt they be the "cultists against December?"

No no, they wanted one of THEM to be December's voice, because they reeeeeeaaaaally deserved it, they've been so good and it's just not fair that they don't get a prize! And then yeah, basically more of that ad nauseum and they through a misogynistic temper tantrum that ironically brought about the same event that were prophesized.

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Zec-Lot said:

What kind of control play? Could be interesting.

At the moment i tend to Dreamer, Rasputina or Lynch.

We talk many about the dreamer (and he sounds pretty interesting), but what is with the other 2? Specally about Lynch i know nearly nothing.

Hmm i was thinking about Yan Lo. But to be honest his crew looks pretty weak, basic and not as much badass compared to the Ice Golem, Teddy, the Illuminates or Lord Chompy Bits. Are they really strong closecombat fighters?

Yan-Lo is someone I've actually played against a lot because he's kind of bonkers right now. Yan-Lo's crew in a nutshell is "Na, na, you cant kiiiiilll me :P" Lore wise, Yan-Lo is an ancient spirit cursed to walk the earth forever due to some earlier crime. Rather than atone for his mistakes, this curse has made him more spiteful and vengeful than ever before. Yay? Yan-Lo has the power to call back the spirits of his most loyal followers and give them new life. On the battlefield, they are fearless in combat because they are secure in the knowledge that should they die, Yan-Lo will find a new host for their soul. Yan-Lo himself rapidly grows in power over the course of the game, at the start of each of his activations he attaches an Upgrade of his choice that both buffs all his stats and gives him a unique immediate effect, and a unique permanent effect. On turns 1-2 Yan-Lo is weaker than the average master and mostly supporting and healing or shooting from 12" away, but on turns 3,4-5 Yan-Lo is MUCH stronger than the average master. 

Mechanically, Yan-Lo's models are extremely tough to kill. They all have high wound counts, and the keyword has just about every type of defensive tech in game on one of its models (Armor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound, Manipulative, Incorporeal, Bloated Stench, Regeneration, Terrifying, etc.). This makes it very hard to design a crew to counter them, its not like "Oh, its Hoffman, everyone has armor, so I'll bring armor piercing," its like "Oh, its possible that he selected the one model with armor, so if I don't bring armor piercing that model will kill everybody, but if I do bring armor piercing and he didnt take that model then it's wasted and his Terrifying model will kill everybody..." On top of this Yan-Lo's Keyword has a metric shit-ton of healing. Like the most in keyword healing I've ever seen; if you don't outright kill a model by the end of the next activation it will be back at full health. And as after you spend an inordinate amount of resources to kill the model, which must be done in a single activation so they dont heal, and needs to be tailored to specifically to get around whichever unique defenses that particular model has, after all that, when any of Yan-Lo's models die, they don't die. Well, not permanently. When an Ancestor dies it drops a "Reliquary" on a nearby friendly. This is in the form of an upgrade that gives buffs to whichever model is currently holding it, usually the defensive tech of whatever just died. In addition, Yan-Lo can take an action to Replace (a new M3E mechanic) the model currently holding the upgrade with the formerly deceased model. Thematically, you want to keep a crappy 5 cost chump near your awesome 10 cost Chad to catch his upgrade if he dies. The spirit of the Chad will inhabit the body of the chump, and with a little help from Yan-Lo, will completely possess the host to return to their previous form. The keystone of this death engine is the Gokudo model, which has and ability which states that when Yan-Lo Replaces it with a Chad, a brand new Gokudo is summoned at the table edge, ultimately resulting in a net loss of 0 models, for whatever it took your opponent to "kill" it in the first place. In addition, because of the way the Replace effect works, you can activate Izamu first, then have him die, then Replace an unactivated Gokudo with Izamu, then have Izamu activate a SECOND TIME THAT TURN (but only if the model he Replaced had not activated. The Replace mechanic basically copies over the current game-state of the Replaced model, including current HP, Condition, Tokens, and Activation status.)

Dying is a GOOD thing for this crew, because it buffs other models, heals the killed model when it comes back as well as putting them somewhere else (psuedo-mobility) and if you do it right, gives them a second activation AND doesn't lose you a model. 

So initially the crew at least had a vision of counterplay. They are tough to kill and dont stay dead, so try not to fight them. CC them to death and be quick on your feet and focus on scoring points. If all else fails focus down one model at a time, and try to kill the supportive cheap models and isolate the strong ones so that there is no one to catch Reliquaries when they finally go down. This all changed when Chiaki was reworked. She has a Trigger on her Spirit Flute action called Split the Soul, which requires a 4 of Masks. What it does is allow Chiaki to attach a Reliquary from one model A to model B without model A dying. So you get the super powerful upgrades that you are supposed to get from dying, immediately at the beginning of the game. This creates an extreme safety net, since you can slap Izamu's Reliquary on a model and send him off on his own anywhere on the board safe in the knowledge that you no longer need to have anyone nearby to catch his Reliquary should be die because its safe on some Chump 20" away. There's no risk at all anymore. This is all in addition to the Upgrades themselves being quite strong, and allowing models to double-up on each other's defensive tech, making it even less likely that they would die in the first place. Furthermore, the Trigger does not have an in-Keyword restriction, like so many similar abilities do, which allows you to creates some really bonkers combinations with out-of-Keyword models. The hot take right now is to slap Mano's Upgrade on Archie, a Ressurrectionist model form Molly crew, notorious for being model and VERY hard hitting, and giving him Regeneration and Demise Eternal (when you die, discard a card. You don't die and instead heal) which combos with Archie's Fading- Brain Freeze ability (when this model discards a card it heals 1/2/3) to turn him into a literally unstoppable monster turn 1. Note that to do this particular combo you need to play Yan-Lo as a Ressurectionist, not as a Ten Thunders master. 

So yea Yan-Lo is probably one of the strongest masters in the game right now, up there with Zoraida and the Dreamer (which is probably why you heard so much about him)

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

The Arcanists as a faction can be described as "cyborgs, mages, and cyborg mages."

And a random dude who doesn't know when to stop fostering pets.

[Regelridderen]

I love my Dreamer crew. 
 

It requires a ton of models, as the Dreamer is a summoner, and so he can bring in a lot of variation, dependent on his needs.

You’ve got the coolest creeps - a spiderlady, a monstrous Teddy bear, your worst nightmares all led by the cheekiest brat in Malifaux, what’s not to hate.

And the playstyle is very synergystic, your beaters rely on your little guys to improve their cards and move them around, while the little guys rely on the big’uns to spread fear, so they can come into play. And then you’ve got one of the most loathed abilities in the stitched together, which feels badly undercosted.

Its fairly complex to play - not difficult, but just not as straightforward as having a giant demon lady beat up your opponent - so it is very rewarding, and games never feel repetitive.

 

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

And then you’ve got one of the most loathed abilities in the stitched together, which feels badly undercosted.

I don't want to start it all over again but... one the most loathed abilities? Yep, but more for how the ability feels ("npe", "no counterplay") than for the power of it.

Badly undercosted? Not even close... Sticheds without a solid lucid dream machine aren't that useful, not even in their other keyword. A stiched doesn't worth 7 SS; in fact, no one hire them OOK for 7SS; they are in line with others 6 SS models.

The last thread were that model was discused here (to both see opinions from both sides and not derrail this thread):

 

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

I don't want to start it all over again but... one the most loathed abilities? Yep, but more for how the ability feels ("npe", "no counterplay") than for the power of it.

Badly undercosted? Not even close... Sticheds without a solid lucid dream machine aren't that useful, not even in their other keyword. A stiched doesn't worth 7 SS; in fact, no one hire them OOK for 7SS; they are in line with others 6 SS models.

The last thread were that model was discused here (to both see opinions from both sides and not derrail this thread):

 

They've got a real good statline for a min 3, 6 cost model. Imo, adding a Gun to Gamble Your Life would help them balance tremendously because it gives a clear plan of attack (engage it) while also not neutering the model (because Nightmare has lots of friendly pushes)

[solkan]

23 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

They've got a real good statline for a min 3, 6 cost model. Imo, adding a Gun to Gamble Your Life would help them balance tremendously because it gives a clear plan of attack (engage it) while also not neutering the model (because Nightmare has lots of friendly pushes)

Why on Earth are you suggesting "Add  to the range" instead of "Add May not be declared while Engaged."?

I hope it's not out of some misguided desire to explain how the Friendly Fire mechanics work for a tactical action with a target.  

[Ogid]

19 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

They've got a real good statline for a min 3, 6 cost model. Imo, adding a Gun to Gamble Your Life would help them balance tremendously because it gives a clear plan of attack (engage it) while also not neutering the model (because Nightmare has lots of friendly pushes)

I think they are fine... there are really good models in the 6 SS range... Soulstone Miners, Nurses, Silurids, Rable Rissers, Moon Shinobi/Fermented Monk, Mecharachnid, Kunoichi, Bokor or Coryphees to name a few... the statline is very good tho, but there are other defensive stat 6 in that range, check for example Coryphees with df6 Armor+2.

That change would be a big nerf for the ability (as solkan said, making being unengaged a requisite; putting a  to a tactical action can get very weird rules wise), gamble your life only has range 6''. If they ever needed to tonne gamble your life down, it could be a way; but the model would need a buff in other areas after that... like buffing the mele attack to shift power from one part of the kit to other...

[Maniacal_cackle]

On the original topic, Molly is also worth a look if you like her crew. Archie fits your playstyle, and the whole crew has some really neat tricks.

Have you played any games yet with borrowed models/have a feel for the basics?

[Regelridderen]

6 hours ago, Ogid said:

I don't want to start it all over again but... one the most loathed abilities? Yep, but more for how the ability feels ("npe", "no counterplay") than for the power of it.

Badly undercosted? Not even close... Sticheds without a solid lucid dream machine aren't that useful, not even in their other keyword. A stiched doesn't worth 7 SS; in fact, no one hire them OOK for 7SS; they are in line with others 6 SS models.

The last thread were that model was discused here (to both see opinions from both sides and not derrail this thread):

 

To which my answer is “Blah, blah, blah... Your dad, my dad... behind the school...High noon...tomorrow...Bring tiny painted models and a 3x3 board.”.

Some people cry “cheese” over stitched, some turn into tears over Zoraida, some people think M3E is the best thing since tamagotchis went out of style, but that really isn’t that interesting, so just get over it, as it is quite far from the OP’s question calling for subjective opinions – and as you point out so well, stitched has a thread of their own.

Also, next time when find yourself starting a post with “I don’t want to start...”, please consider the veracity of the sentence, and whether pressing “Submit Reply” is actually aligned with this (missing) intention.

-

Now back on track

Apart from getting The Dreamer, because the crew is awesome, and stitched really aren’t that bad, but people just like to whinge a little. My advice is always to get yourself the crew, that wants to make you paint the most. Paint them up, get some games going, learn the basics, check out how other crews work. Maybe your first crew won’t be ‘the best’, but that’s not the point; the point is to have fun and only play with painted models. My own journey involved getting 5 crews in two factions, before finally branching out to the sixth crew in the third faction to get ‘it right’. I’ve now got 9 crews, but still only two are neverborn, and as I’m getting more and more games under my belt, I start to see the game play appeal of the others – and when they hit the table, they’re all nicely coated in paint.

Besides, be honest to yourself. It’s not like you’d ever just choose one crew and stick with it and live happily ever after, so just get into it and enjoy the ride.