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Who is good at turf war?


Maniacal_cackle

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I'm thinking of taking Molly to a tournament. She is good for 4/5 rounds, but there is one turf war game I think she will struggle on.

Wedge deployment

Harness the leyline

Power ritual

Take prisoner

Hold up their forces

Vendetta

Molly might actually be okay, since she is okay at four of the schemes and okay at turf war. But definitely want to at least consider other options.

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7 minutes ago, Robbe said:

What is your current Molly list?

I own Archie, crooligans, rabble risers, P&N, molly and totem, grave golem, grave digger.

Haven't thought through a list fully, but would take 2-3 crooligans as the schemes line up well with them.

Archie for sure. Mayyyybe P&N, but don't like the schemes for them. 2 rabble risers. Maybe grave golem, but don't think so.

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Molly is amazing in Turf War; I think it is her 2nd best strategy...........but half or more of the Resser masters can do Turf War well.

I would not take 3 Crooligans in that pool as you don't need it. I would probably take 1.....definitely not more than 2. 1 or 2 reactivating is all you need for out activation usually and if you play elite Molly you probably won't even need that. 

The Twins are amazing in Turf War with Molly too and you definitely need to expand your bench for her and pick up the Rogue Necro and the Dead Rider. 

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20 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

Molly is amazing in Turf War; I think it is her 2nd best strategy...........but half or more of the Resser masters can do Turf War well.

I would not take 3 Crooligans in that pool as you don't need it. I would probably take 1.....definitely not more than 2. 1 or 2 reactivating is all you need for out activation usually and if you play elite Molly you probably won't even need that. 

The Twins are amazing in Turf War with Molly too and you definitely need to expand your bench for her and pick up the Rogue Necro and the Dead Rider. 

Think I heard you in another recent podcast after the nova (?) tournament! Your appearances on the podcasts are always useful. I have some questions if you don't mind having a look!

I can borrow Rogue Necromancy easily enough. Who are the Twins? Dead Rider I'll probably wait for an M3E release, but may see if I can pick one up in a sale.

What is it that you don't like about the crooligans? I figured the crooligans were useful because they make the scheme marker schemes (or denying) trivial. They're also really good for bluffing (deploy them from the shadows as if I'm going for power ritual, then pull them out if the enemy comes after them). I don't find them as useful for activating again with Molly, though, as I usually run them all over the rest of the board after turns 1 and 2 (although I guess that's when you need the extra activation delay the most).

What would you recommend? Would you take something like Archie, Dead Rider, Rogue Necromancy, crooligan + some flex slots based on matchup? Who do you usually use to flip the markers (or are you more focused on denying)

Also, just out of curiousity, what do you reckon are Molly's order of strategies? I personally think that she is fantastic at Corrupted Idols and Plant Explosives.

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2 hours ago, thewrathchilde said:

Molly is amazing in Turf War; I think it is her 2nd best strategy...........but half or more of the Resser masters can do Turf War well.

I would not take 3 Crooligans in that pool as you don't need it. I would probably take 1.....definitely not more than 2. 1 or 2 reactivating is all you need for out activation usually and if you play elite Molly you probably won't even need that. 

The Twins are amazing in Turf War with Molly too and you definitely need to expand your bench for her and pick up the Rogue Necro and the Dead Rider. 

I agree completely. The leapers are wonderful and I rarely field any Resser crew without the Dead Rider. I would make him your next purchase. The RN I haven't had great success with, but I've been meaning to get him back on the table to test out a bit. 

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22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Think I heard you in another recent podcast after the nova (?) tournament! Your appearances on the podcasts are always useful. I have some questions if you don't mind having a look!

Anytime. I am always up for discussion of ideas...sometimes I am busy enough at work that its take me until the evening to get a chance to reply and do justice to a topic.

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I can borrow Rogue Necromancy easily enough. Who are the Twins? Dead Rider I'll probably wait for an M3E release, but may see if I can pick one up in a sale.

the Twins are Archie & Manos.  They are both 9 SS/10 out of keyword, both are high mobility, have a leap, can be min 3 damage, can heal/regen, and are great picks out of keyword that can work as well as most of the versatile models with a number of masters.....they are twins just not identical. 

 

This was a shorthand or slang term for both that came out of one of my early guest appearances on a podcast or in one of the chats. 

 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What is it that you don't like about the crooligans? I figured the crooligans were useful because they make the scheme marker schemes (or denying) trivial. They're also really good for bluffing (deploy them from the shadows as if I'm going for power ritual, then pull them out if the enemy comes after them). I don't find them as useful for activating again with Molly, though, as I usually run them all over the rest of the board after turns 1 and 2 (although I guess that's when you need the extra activation delay the most).

It's not the I don't like them; I love Crooligan and they are some of my favorite minions in keyword and faction. I just don't think you need all 3 in Turf War. A lot of times you can get by with 1 or maybe 2 if it is a scheme marker heavy pool. Especially with reactivation where you can virtually guarantee activation control 1 is enough to zip in late and tip a marker in your favor or deny the opponent and then get back out at the start of the next turn before they can be dealt with. 

Usually I never deploy them with From the Shadows as you give up the ability to Interact first turn. I do use them for deception in deployment or with bluffing schemes but I want to be able to Interact first turn to start getting markers in place, Turf Markers flipped, etc. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What would you recommend? Would you take something like Archie, Dead Rider, Rogue Necromancy, crooligan + some flex slots based on matchup? Who do you usually use to flip the markers (or are you more focused on denying)

I try to use killing to flip their markers to Neutral and then a Crooligan or any available model (NM) to flip them to me. I usually set up 2-3 markers first turn and then only need to flip 1 or 2 in subsequent turns so don't need 3 Crooligans to do it. I prefer to have more combat power and survivability to mitigate the risk of soft targets that can allow my opponent to flip markers through easy kills. 

22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also, just out of curiousity, what do you reckon are Molly's order of strategies? I personally think that she is fantastic at Corrupted Idols and Plant Explosives.

I play different masters and often rotate based on what I *want* to play based on other factors rather than strictly who is the best for a strategy.....at NOVA the Iron Scorpius award required using a different leader every round for example.....I also factor the schemes into the decision of who to play in a given pool also. With Ressers we have a bunch of great masters that can play almost all/most of the strategies so you can option out based on the opposing faction. 

 

For Molly IMO Plant is her best strategy, Turf is probably my second choice, Idols third, and Reckoning 4th.....she can do any of them but I usually have other preferred picks in some of them.  

 

For Plant I like Molly, Albus, Doc; Seamus can do it too but I prefer the others. For Turf I will use any of the Resser Masters and decide based on the rest of the pool and the opposing crew. In Idols I will run Kirai, McMourning, Molly, Seamus, or Yan. In Reckoning I can/will run just about any of them as well much like in Turf and will base the decision on the other factors. Yan is usually my default though for Reckoning. 

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Thanks for those thoughts, very helpful!

21 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

Usually I never deploy [crooligans] with From the Shadows as you give up the ability to Interact first turn. I do use them for deception in deployment or with bluffing schemes but I want to be able to Interact first turn to start getting markers in place, Turf Markers flipped, etc. 

Hmmm... This difference likely just is due to our default number of crooligans. Since I don't own as many models and commonly field 2-3 crooligans, putting 1-2 of them in an awkward position for my opponent just feels great.

They spend 2-3 actions running after my crooligan, and then the crooligan just teleports away on its activation and wastes all that movement for them. It can even spend its first turn focusing, so it is not entirely wasted. If they don't deal with it, that is an easy scheme secured (or a failed bluff).

Of course, that is only viable with multiple crooligans! I always have one ready to interact turn one. On plant explosives, they all start in base as they can't carry bombs otherwise. I'd say about 20-30% of the time, a crooligan ends up out of the shadows for me (for example, this setup has two schemes worth bluffing if the terrain is right).

I have a much more controlling/slow roll approach to Molly as a whole than you I think. Probably from lack of the sheer brutality of my meta, but my style very much focuses on avoiding combat except when I choose to engage, and to just make actions as costly as possible for my opponent (forcing them to approach me for combat, efficiently removing scheme markers, efficiently planting schemes, Lethes caress, etc). Archie spends loads of time threatening combat instead of actually swinging many times I find. Id say I kill an average of 1-3 models per game against non-summoners unless it is Reckoning.

I'll probably see if I can borrow/proxy the heavy hitters and try your style, as it sounds brutal and effective. My style may explain why I'm over the moon for corrupted idols on Molly. She is adept at cheating the idol placement most turns, and then controlling the board exceptionally well from there. She just drowns the opponent in card advantage.

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmmm... This difference likely just is due to our default number of crooligans. Since I don't own as many models and commonly field 2-3 crooligans, putting 1-2 of them in an awkward position for my opponent just feels great.

They spend 2-3 actions running after my crooligan, and then the crooligan just teleports away on its activation and wastes all that movement for them. It can even spend its first turn focusing, so it is not entirely wasted. If they don't deal with it, that is an easy scheme secured (or a failed bluff).

most of my opponents don't bother chasing the Crooligans unless they can catch them and one round them in combat knowing they are going to pitch a card and get away. If my opponent does chase them to a corner then its because they have their own Outflank, etc to score and the Crooligan isn't enough combat power to stop them. 

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Of course, that is only viable with multiple crooligans! I always have one ready to interact turn one. On plant explosives, they all start in base as they can't carry bombs otherwise. I'd say about 20-30% of the time, a crooligan ends up out of the shadows for me (for example, this setup has two schemes worth bluffing if the terrain is right).

 

In Plant I do routinely take 3 Crooligans but it is often the only time I take 3 unless it is an extremely marker heavy pool. Even so at that point I am taking Archie, the Rogue Necro, and the Rider so I have quite a bit of speed and combat power to go with it while the Crooligans are going for scheme saturation and blitzing in and out for counter scheming as well. 

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