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Caver Ramos

Who are the good guys?

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I know malifaux is supposed to be a game where most characters are either morally grey or darker than black, but if you were to consider some guys the good guys in this world, who would you consider to fill that mostly scarce position. 

Here is my opinion on who are the most morally correct masters in Malifaux, per faction, in no particular order

Bayou

Ulix: there is literally nothing wrong about ulix, the guy is very smart and cunning but there doesnt seem to be malice in his cunning, his particular story makes a pretty great effort in showing him as a caring person that values life above anything else and his dignified treatment of animals make him one of the most simpathetic characters in malifaux IMHO

Ophelia: Besides stealing Perdita's hat, Ophelia has been mainly a force of good in the bayou, trying to organize gremlins into a cohesive force that can stand against the humans and their invasion, she doesnt seem to be mean or malicious in any of her appearences and seems to be a great role model for female gremlins

Brewmaster: this man is literally an example of a heel face turn done well. He started of as a villain, planning to use gremlins as meatshields in some nefarious ten thunders plan, but overtime he has grown to love his kin and now fights for their freedom against the powers that enslaved him so long ago

Zoraida: This one is rather controversial, but Zoraidas en game is getting rid of the tirants, who are clearly the big bad of the setting, so his actions fall in the means justify the ends category. Also she doesnt seem to be particularly mean towards gremlins, sometimes even looking tender and endearing towards them. Overall in a rather twisted way  i think Zoraida is probably the big good of the story.

Arcanists

Toni Ironsides: The president is probably one of the better human characters in the setting, sure, she let the best inventor in malifaux rot in prison, but just as zoraida her actions fall in the means justify the end category, which is a pretty understandable category to qualify as good in this setting. Also she does seem to care about the union workers and we dont really see her do anything wrong or criminal in her stories.

Mei Feng: Mei Feng is a seriously weird character, on one hadn her fluff implies that she does care a lot about her workers and tries to give them a human treatment, on the other hand in her stories she is seen torturing and extorting workers on more than one ocation. But lets give mei the benefit of the doubt and say that the takanakas are the ones behind all this torturing and that she is forced to do it

 

Ten thunders

Asami: Asami is one of the saddest characters in malifaux alongside with Collodi and Molly. But unlike collodi and much like molly she didn't let the sadness of her life turn her into a bad person. In her story she tries to save the innocent time and time again and actively tries to prevent a great evil from being released into the world, even if it means losing something she values a lot. Overall it is impossible to not feel simpathy for Asami

 

Guild

Lady Justice: Lady justice is malifaux answer to batman, she seems to be beloved by the people of Malifaux and we never ever she her doing anything nefarious, all we see her doing is her job with the lowest ammount of civil casualties possible. Overall there isn't much bad to say about lady j

 

Perdita ortega: Another character i can say n othing bad about, she fights nephilin and gremlins without being overly evil about it and seems to care a lot about her family and friends despite not always carrying herself all that well

 

Outcasts

Von Schill: A real german, overall he is nowadays fighting for freedom and offering all of malifaux outcasts a possibility to settle down. I dont see him doing anything evil unless it involves his job

 

Resurrectionists

Reva: An angel, she fights for the rights of the living AND the dead 

Molly: She seems to be a zombie that re socializes zombies and tries to help them live in harmony, just like Reva she is an angel

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Petition to add Hoffman to the list. Im only halfway through the lore, but he seems to be a big hearted person who just wants to do his job. 

Evidently Basse is supposed to be a kind and fair, but stern sheriff. He doesnt really have lore yet tho. 

Kirai may be considered good, since she only kills the villainous

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10 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Petition to add Hoffman to the list. Im only halfway through the lore, but he seems to be a big hearted person who just wants to do his job. 

Evidently Basse is supposed to be a kind and fair, but stern sheriff. He doesnt really have lore yet tho. 

Kirai may be considered good, since she only kills the villainous

Hoffman should be on the list, but im afraid of how the death of ryle might affect his morality, I know nothing about basse. And yes i absolutely forgot that kirai is fighting against prostitution rings in malifaux.

It is amazing how ressers have both the most morally righteous and most morally repugnant characters in the entire game

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In each faction:

Guild

Lady Justice is at worst a well meaning pawn for Lucius, and at best actively protecting both Humanity and the Neverborn.

Basse is just trying to make a safe life for his daughter.

Honorable mentions: Nellie is a good girl in a bad situation but she's still helping hold up a fascist state. Hoffman is well meaning but kills people just like him for a living. Perdita has the same problem, given the heavy hints that her mother was Nephilim.

Ressurectuonists

Reva has done literally nothing wrong and is probably the most heroic of any character in the game.

Molly is a walking reminder that everyone in Malifaux has a choice of who they want to be, and she actively helps people make better choices.

Kirai hasn't actually chosen to hurt anyone technically, as it's her spirits that do the killing through her body, but she's on thin ice.

Honorable Mentions: None. As much as I love ressers most of them just aren't good people.

Neverborn

Lilith actively protected both her people and humanity until humans started fucking shit up and accidentally let out a tyrant. She actively protected all of Malifaux and even the fight with her sister wasn't actively bad.

Honorable Mentions: Titania does want to destroy the Tyrants once and for all, but she also let out the Grave Spirit, one of the main villains of the story, so I think that's a wash. Zoraida might be seen as benevolent, but as a reminder she totally knows Despair is in Pandora's box and Lord Chompy Bits is Nytmare and still supports them. Collodi is just lashing out because he can't do what he was made to, but maybe your response to not being able to entertain children shouldn't be murdering children. Marcus was chill until he started converting unwilling people to initiates.

Arcanists

Collette actively takes care of her girls and makes sure The Star is neutral ground. If she makes a bit of money smuggling on the side I'm pretty sure that's fine compared to what other people in Malifaux are doing.

Honorable Mentions: Toni... I want to say she's good, but she sold out Ramos (and the Arcanists within the M&SU) for a promise that was laughably impossible. Yes, it was bad writing, but we gotta assume she knew what she was doing. Kaeris is continuing to fight the Guild, which is good. She's also killing a lot of civilians and sympathetic with the Burning Man to do it, which is not. Sandeep is up in the air right now but I imagine on Kaeris's side which is why he's here. Mei Feng should be on this list, but the way she's written makes her far more cruel and evil than intended.

Outcasts

Zipp just wants to do his own thing and be a pirate, and he's frankly too ineffectual to be evil.

Honorable Mentions: Tara really does just want her BFF in the real world with her and to protect her psuedo girlfriend, but her BFF is a tyrant who wants to destroy the world and her psuedo girlfriend is insane and able to rip holes in reality. The Viktorias and Von Schill are just doing a job, but they both kill a LOT of people illegally, and the Viks are feeding a tyrant in doing so.

Ten Thunders

No one is good here.

Honorable Mentions: Asami is more sad than evil, but she also gets people killed a lot, which means she kind of can't be a good guy. Lynch is just a dude in a bad situation but he also kills people about it. McCabe is cool and all but he's too selfish to be a good guy.

Bayou

No one is good here.

Honorable Mentions: Mah and Ophelia both want to protect the bayou, but they also both are only doing that to protect themselves and get more booze and equipment from their victims. Ulix gores people with his pigs and that's the whole reason he raises them. Gremlins are all super vicious, even towards welcome guests, and plenty of Lacroixs and Tickets and Turners were at that bayou bash in book 2 of 1.5.

That said, I play a LOT of not good characters. Most of the characters in this world are morally grey at best. But I think these 8 are the only definitively "good" characters.

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3 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

Brewmaster: this man is literally an example of a heel face turn done well. He started of as a villain, planning to use gremlins as meatshields in some nefarious ten thunders plan, but overtime he has grown to love his kin and now fights for their freedom against the powers that enslaved him so long ago

What?  I was under understanding that Brewmaster essentially just showed up one day, said he was obviously with the Ten Thunders and wouldn’t leave.  If there were any nefarious meatshield plans, there wouldn’t be any exception made for the Brewmaster.  :) 

 

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I'm going to have to point out that Kirai was willing to teach the Court of Two how to enslave ghosts in exchange for a chance at getting her lover back. Totally understandable but at best reckless, at worst aiding a hostile invading force. It hurts me to say it, her relationship with Molly was one of my favorite parts of the story and I'd love to see her on the side of angles again. 

Also Reva seems nice but there is a definite maybe kinda mind control vibe there. Maybe she doesn't know she's doing it but it's still a little creepy. 

Nelly is the worst, just the worst. 

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Justo because Ulix raises some pigs to use as defenders of his herd he is now a bad guy?

 

Asami is definitely not a bad person, in her story she is willing to suffer tremendous pain in order to save the innocent both physically and emotionally

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20 minutes ago, Caver Ramos said:

Justo because Ulix raises some pigs to use as defenders of his herd he is now a bad guy?

Again, he's using them on the offensive. That's part of his lore. Gremlins are a very aggressive species and he definitely has actively killed not out of defense. That doesn't make him a bad guy, he's just also not a good guy :P

49 minutes ago, Inefficiency_Expert said:

I'm going to have to point out that Kirai was willing to teach the Court of Two how to enslave ghosts in exchange for a chance at getting her lover back.

Good point! Kirai is Honorable Mention at best!

49 minutes ago, Inefficiency_Expert said:

Also Reva seems nice but there is a definite maybe kinda mind control vibe there. Maybe she doesn't know she's doing it but it's still a little creepy. 

That's really more Asura than Reva. There's no cannon text to support that.

23 minutes ago, Caver Ramos said:

Asami is definitely not a bad person, in her story she is willing to suffer tremendous pain in order to save the innocent both physically and emotionally

You know what, that's fair actually. But this isn't a thread of who's a bad person or not, just of who could possibly count as the good guys. I think it's possible she counts but I could have sworn she wiped out a whole building out of spite?? I'll have to reread the lore I guess.

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You know what, I would actually like to read where it says that Ulix raises pigs mainly to use them as murder machines.

In his backstory the guy does literally every single thing a good guy does. First we get a text about how he respects his dog so much that even though she could use her as a mount he would never humiliate her like that.

Then he gets a golden pig and Ulix at no point thinks about the monetary gain having such an animal would bring. He is instead happy to see that Goldie is welcomed by her brothers.

Then when People come to take Goldie away he does not kill anybody while defending her. Instead relying on his wits.

And also, he is able to make all other gremlins in his community value the life of Goldie more than her gold, which is a trait of heroes.

I just don't see how he could be a bad guy

 

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20 minutes ago, Thedeadclaw said:

That's really more Asura than Reva. There's no cannon text to support that.

I mean her current main description actually says, "Most disturbingly, she instilled a sense of purpose and devotion in those around her that should have been beyond the ability of a child."

Everyone she meets (except her parents) just sort of comes around to her side distressingly easily, and in her intro story Vincent , a veteran guild exorcist, actually questions his own motivations for helping her.  

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37 minutes ago, Caver Ramos said:

You know what, I would actually like to read where it says that Ulix raises pigs mainly to use them as murder machines.

In his backstory the guy does literally every single thing a good guy does. First we get a text about how he respects his dog so much that even though she could use her as a mount he would never humiliate her like that.

Then he gets a golden pig and Ulix at no point thinks about the monetary gain having such an animal would bring. He is instead happy to see that Goldie is welcomed by her brothers.

Then when People come to take Goldie away he does not kill anybody while defending her. Instead relying on his wits.

And also, he is able to make all other gremlins in his community value the life of Goldie more than her gold, which is a trait of heroes.

I just don't see how he could be a bad guy

 

OH MY GOD I FORGOT THE GOLDIE STORY YOURE SO RIGHT HES ABSOLUTELY A HERO!!!!!

 

23 minutes ago, Inefficiency_Expert said:

I mean her current main description actually says, "Most disturbingly, she instilled a sense of purpose and devotion in those around her that should have been beyond the ability of a child."

Everyone she meets (except her parents) just sort of comes around to her side distressingly easily, and in her intro story Vincent , a veteran guild exorcist, actually questions his own motivations for helping her.  

You know, I must be really dumb or it must barely be there because I didn't pick up on any of that tbh

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1 hour ago, Inefficiency_Expert said:

I mean her current main description actually says, "Most disturbingly, she instilled a sense of purpose and devotion in those around her that should have been beyond the ability of a child."

Everyone she meets (except her parents) just sort of comes around to her side distressingly easily, and in her intro story Vincent , a veteran guild exorcist, actually questions his own motivations for helping her.  

That's what I took away from her story too, that she can influence people, make them give up on life, and then gains strength from their deaths. She doesn't seem like such a benevolent character after all when you read bits like that. 

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1 hour ago, DanceCommander19 said:

That's what I took away from her story too, that she can influence people, make them give up on life, and then gains strength from their deaths. She doesn't seem like such a benevolent character after all when you read bits like that. 

Don’t be hating on my Reva. She is an angel. Its not her fault others recognize it and want to protect her...

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6 hours ago, Thedeadclaw said:

The Viktorias and Von Schill are just doing a job, but they both kill a LOT of people illegally, and the Viks are feeding a tyrant in doing so.

Good news!  Viktoria no longer has the sword so she's not feeding the Tyrant... so she's back on the good side then, right?!

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5 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Good news!  Viktoria no longer has the sword so she's not feeding the Tyrant... so she's back on the good side then, right?!

Nah, she still kills a LOT of people and it's still SUPER illegal. I don't remember her losing the sword, when did that happen?? (I love the Viks so much but they're awful from like... An ethical standpoint :P )

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8 hours ago, DanceCommander19 said:

That's what I took away from her story too, that she can influence people, make them give up on life, and then gains strength from their deaths. She doesn't seem like such a benevolent character after all when you read bits like that. 

You are getting Reva all wrong she doesn't make them give up on life, she just helps suffering people have an easier transition to the other life, reducing their pain and helping them.

 

When it comes to her powers yes, she has the power to instill devotion in his people but if you look at her deeds, her noble deeds also help Inspire the people too. She provided hope to the humble people of Malifaux and hope can inspire as much devotion as any magic.

I think the legality of a characters deeds shouldn't really be a measuring stick for their morality. When the Law is created by the Guild being a a good person is probably ilegal.

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1 hour ago, Caver Ramos said:

I think the legality of a characters deeds shouldn't really be a measuring stick for their morality.

I'd agree generally, but either way, killing people for money generally makes you a bad person.

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12 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

You know what, I would actually like to read where it says that Ulix raises pigs mainly to use them as murder machines.

In his backstory the guy does literally every single thing a good guy does. First we get a text about how he respects his dog so much that even though she could use her as a mount he would never humiliate her like that.

Then he gets a golden pig and Ulix at no point thinks about the monetary gain having such an animal would bring. He is instead happy to see that Goldie is welcomed by her brothers.

Then when People come to take Goldie away he does not kill anybody while defending her. Instead relying on his wits.

And also, he is able to make all other gremlins in his community value the life of Goldie more than her gold, which is a trait of heroes.

I just don't see how he could be a bad guy

 

New story about Ulix in M3E faction book shows him as a vigilante hero of the Bayou.  

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7 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

When it comes to her powers yes, she has the power to instill devotion in his people but if you look at her deeds, her noble deeds also help Inspire the people too. She provided hope to the humble people of Malifaux and hope can inspire as much devotion as any magic.

Just what one of her brainwashed followers would say.... 😃

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7 minutes ago, Wintergloom said:

Hoffman always seemed like a good guy to me

And Obviously Jack Daw is the main hero of the story as he's fighting for Justice :) 

 

 

 

 

I cant believe Jacky teamed up with Lady J! Musta missed that story

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2 hours ago, Wintergloom said:

Hoffman always seemed like a good guy to me

He definitely seems sweet but he's also actively arresting and killing other cyborgs for being illegally created despite, ya know... Being an illegal cyborg.

2 hours ago, Wintergloom said:

And Obviously Jack Daw is the main hero of the story as he's fighting for Justice :) 

Honestly Jack's done a lot of fucked up shit but I really just see him as a force of nature more than a character given what he is.

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He's not a cyborg... he's wearing an exoskeleton.

And he's not just killing cyborgs, he's an equal opportunity good cop: he's killing magic users, necromancers, zombies, constructs, and cyborgs.

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