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Cronex13

Deployment and Positioning - an in depth tactica

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Hello again.

Today I was ruminating on some of my mistakes in recent games and I realized that one of the biggest ways I struggle is deployment.

I struggle to build a good crew to play the given deployment zones (and the accompanying schemes).

I struggle to deploy my models in such a way that they're always in position or are able to easily get to where they need to be.

I struggle to make good positioning decisions throughout the games progression.

I would like to hear tips from everyone, as I realize that, like Chess, the beginning moves in a game can be the most important! Tell us about how you deploy. How you build crews for certain deployment zones, what kinda checklists do you have when you're deploying, etc.

Looking forwards to hearing your answers!

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31 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

Hello again.

Today I was ruminating on some of my mistakes in recent games and I realized that one of the biggest ways I struggle is deployment.

I struggle to build a good crew to play the given deployment zones (and the accompanying schemes).

I struggle to deploy my models in such a way that they're always in position or are able to easily get to where they need to be.

I struggle to make good positioning decisions throughout the games progression.

I would like to hear tips from everyone, as I realize that, like Chess, the beginning moves in a game can be the most important! Tell us about how you deploy. How you build crews for certain deployment zones, what kinda checklists do you have when you're deploying, etc.

Looking forwards to hearing your answers!

Besides putting someone in a position to drop a power ritual marker, where do you tend to get into trouble?

Crews are very different in deployment needs.  I tend to think of my deployment as several small teams, each with a goal.  

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Well, I'll use a recent example.

When I take Vendetta, I like to use my rifleman as the initial damage dealer and the chosen model for the scheme, and then have a beater (generally Lady j) clean up.

As such, I try and give my rifleman higher ground to give him the best LoS of the battlefield he can get with his potential 24" range.

I played against Von Schtook this weekend and chose a student of Viscera as my target.

I didn't get my first point til turn 4! My opponent unwittingly managed to move his student in such a way that my distant rifleman never had the shot he needed. I had to jump the rifleman off his tower and move to get Los and then next turn the kill managed to go down, but it wasted the rifleman basically the whole game based on what appeared to be poor deployment.

I also unwisely took Outflank on that same game, figuring that a hunter had mobility and toughness to hold one corner, and Lady J, Pale Rider and Guardian would have the mobility and offense to hold the other one, but the hunter collapsed EASILY to a student of Sinew and an Undergrad and failed to secure the second point, leaving my Pale Rider (my only horse model I own, no mounted guard or lone Marshall) sitting uselessly in a corner.

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9 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

Well, I'll use a recent example.

When I take Vendetta, I like to use my rifleman as the initial damage dealer and the chosen model for the scheme, and then have a beater (generally Lady j) clean up.

As such, I try and give my rifleman higher ground to give him the best LoS of the battlefield he can get with his potential 24" range.

I played against Von Schtook this weekend and chose a student of Viscera as my target.

I didn't get my first point til turn 4! My opponent unwittingly managed to move his student in such a way that my distant rifleman never had the shot he needed. I had to jump the rifleman off his tower and move to get Los and then next turn the kill managed to go down, but it wasted the rifleman basically the whole game based on what appeared to be poor deployment.

I also unwisely took Outflank on that same game, figuring that a hunter had mobility and toughness to hold one corner, and Lady J, Pale Rider and Guardian would have the mobility and offense to hold the other one, but the hunter collapsed EASILY to a student of Sinew and an Undergrad and failed to secure the second point, leaving my Pale Rider (my only horse model I own, no mounted guard or lone Marshall) sitting uselessly in a corner.

Sounds like you are feeling more frustrated by scheme selection than deployment.  I'm struggling with schemes in this edition too playing with guild.    I tend to do well with search the ruins or breakthrough, can usually get at least one for power ritual, assassinate or deliver the message.  

Honestly my game is much more strat point focused than scheme point focused. It turns out if you kill a lot it's hard for your opponent to score.

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That's a fair observation. I feel that schemes/strats and deployment are intrinsically tied, since I try to deploy to my schemes advantage. And it's definitely true that I've given more attention to schemes than the strats, maybe I should give that some attention as well!

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General tips which seem to work for me:
- Strat before Schemes
- Never pick 2 Schemes where you need to drop Scheme markers
- Don't deploy in a way which lets your opponent guess which Schemes you have from the beginning. Due to the way Schemes are scored in M3E you don't have to score in turn 2

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The game is a case of play and counter play. Putting your sniper up on  a high tower when there is Vendetta in the pool is a little like screaming "I hate you I'm going to kill you".  And as such a smart opponent will try and move in such a way that they don't offer up the points. what you don't know is how much the rifleman there  inconvenienced your opponent, so was giving value just by being there.

Sometimes you would be better not giving them the higher ground but set them in a place that they can cover an area that they expect the target to get to. Its a lot less obvious that you are gunning for them if you're not standing on a tall building.  You could also change the model that you use for vendetta. If you "always " choose a rifleman and you're playing the same people, then they will know that you "always " choose vendetta and the rifleman, they will start doing counter play based on this assumption. Not picking the scheme, or picking a different set of models to complete it will sometimes be easier.

 

I have a plan for each model, and try and deploy them to cover their main function and their secondary function. If a model is slow (most of guild) then I need to make sure that their jobs are going to be realistic based on where the model will get to. You will need to adapt based on enemy crew, if you have an armoured model that you expect to hold a play for out flank, but they have anti armour then you might need to either change the plan, or re-enforce earlier.

 

A lot of the time you can look at a board and guess where the action is likely to be. So in cursed idols, you can expect lots of models near the center line, where as in reckoning, you are more likely to have a large group heading towards you, but in Plant explosives it is much more likely they'll split up and you'll have lots of individual models to face. Make sure you aim to get the right models to the action place at the right time.  If its going to be a big ruck in the middle, then you want your forces to arrive their around the same time, and to be supported by riflemen picking off their models.

 

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I find with my Hoffman crew a great boon is having a guardian tossing my own models. Suddenly you have a scary fast hunter with a couple of power tokens on them 10" across the board with a full activation to go. It's a great way to apply early preasure, potentially wipe out an opposing piece or set up for strategies etc. Plus a hunter is something that will take some substantial resources to dislodge for many crews. Hugely helps mitigate deployment flubs too. 

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I disagree a bit with the above. Hunters lack something in durability and so does Miss Kore, if the armor becomes unavailable. (There was a recent remark on a pool of seven wounds not being durable in and of itself. This is a bit of a change from M2e and kind of fits here.) If there wasn’t a crew’s worth of Von Schtook’s finest armor ignoring models threatening you then a hunter would have been a safe bet, but in this situation, maybe not.

 

I am still terrible at deployment also and am happy to receive any tips going.

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I agree about the hunters not being durable.  I tend to send them around the flanks, but if I use them I use their deadly pursuit to get them where I need them at the end of turn and am very careful about not exposing them to real beaters.   

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1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

I disagree a bit with the above. Hunters lack something in durability and so does Miss Kore, if the armor becomes unavailable. (There was a recent remark on a pool of seven wounds not being durable in and of itself. This is a bit of a change from M2e and kind of fits here.) If there wasn’t a crew’s worth of Von Schtook’s finest armor ignoring models threatening you then a hunter would have been a safe bet, but in this situation, maybe not.

 

I am still terrible at deployment also and am happy to receive any tips going.

I'll take that point but add a caveat that if you're playing on a table where over 20" of movement doesn't allow you to pick what can and can't target you after that turn then the table may need some more thought. Movement should always be taken into consoderation when discussing durability as if you can't catch or target something you can't take it out.

I'm not saying it's going to win a game all on it's lonesome but it's going to get work done as well as be a threat that can't be ignored. 

But I digress as the original point about the Guardians toss being a forgiving tool to mitigate against deployment flubs or being caught on the hop was what was to be my main contribution. 

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The Guardian Toss is one of Guilds best mobility sources, it's not to be underestimated at all. Combined with the fact that he all but counters assassinate, that dude is one of my fav models.

So with that in mind, I'll definitely think more on the strategy aspect and how to gain more points off of that.

Riflemen have been a topic here, so I figure maybe we can talk about them a little bit. I look at them and right off the bat, their potential 24" range seems like god tier power right there. Now, that said, they're only st5 unless you're shooting an already activated model and if I wanna do damage, I really want to be spending my focus on the shots flips instead of the extra range. So I'm thinking the tower strat I've had with him may have been acting against my own best interests. Instead, I should deploy a little closer to the action, but have him near the guardian so that if he can't get his shot off, the guardian can get him to where he needs to be. My biggest issue is that concealment giving him negative flips is a bitch, but I don't wanna waste 2 stones on expert marksman when he already has most of that upgrade built in. So do we as guild have something we like to substitute as a shooter with that upgrade?

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29 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

The Guardian Toss is one of Guilds best mobility sources, it's not to be underestimated at all. Combined with the fact that he all but counters assassinate, that dude is one of my fav models.

So with that in mind, I'll definitely think more on the strategy aspect and how to gain more points off of that.

Riflemen have been a topic here, so I figure maybe we can talk about them a little bit. I look at them and right off the bat, their potential 24" range seems like god tier power right there. Now, that said, they're only st5 unless you're shooting an already activated model and if I wanna do damage, I really want to be spending my focus on the shots flips instead of the extra range. So I'm thinking the tower strat I've had with him may have been acting against my own best interests. Instead, I should deploy a little closer to the action, but have him near the guardian so that if he can't get his shot off, the guardian can get him to where he needs to be. My biggest issue is that concealment giving him negative flips is a bitch, but I don't wanna waste 2 stones on expert marksman when he already has most of that upgrade built in. So do we as guild have something we like to substitute as a shooter with that upgrade?

I would never put an upgrade on a rifleman unless I intend to run a very janky high range grenade list (one day I will run that one)

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Just now, 4thstringer said:

I would never put an upgrade on a rifleman unless I intend to run a very janky high range grenade list (one day I will run that one)

.... Sniper works on Clockwork Grenade? HAH!

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Just now, Kharnage said:

.... Sniper works on Clockwork Grenade? HAH!

I wish I could claim that idea as my own.  It wasn't, but I couldn't tell you who on here put it in my brain.

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4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

I love how this tactica has degenerated into ‘here’s how to not bother with it’. :D

P.S. Add austringers?

We have fun here 😂

Austringers eh? I'll admit they haven't kept my attention much since they lost Deliver Orders, have you had experience with them? I only have 1 of then but that's a model that's collecting dust atm

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I need to put a disclaimer on all my posts that says something like "warning, following the advice of a mediocre player like myself could result in developing mediocre playstyle".

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24 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I need to put a disclaimer on all my posts that says something like "warning, following the advice of a mediocre player like myself could result in developing mediocre playstyle".

*looks at signature block*

Which is sadly not displayed on mobile, but that’s purpose-built for the job...

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Just now, Gnomezilla said:

*looks at signature block*

Which is sadly not displayed on mobile, but that’s purpose-built for the job...

Yeah, after I wrote the post I added that in.

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Hey guys!

Got a couple tournament practice games coming up this weekend, I wanna put my list and scenario here and see what y'all think!

Scenario: Reckoning on Wedge Deployment. Schemes are Search the Ruins, Dig their Graves, Assassinate, Claim Jump and Vendetta.

Enemy has declared Asami, My list is as follows:

Lady j w/ LLC

Scales

Guardian

DM Recruiter

Pale Rider

Agent 46

Orderly

With 4 ss leftover, here's my plan: the DM Recruiter is there to punish Asami for being buried, or to encourage her to unbury early. Lady J is there to kill Asami on the tabletop for Assassinate.

Guardian is there for Claim Jump, as he has that pulse that pushes everyone away AUTOMATICALLY. Orderly is there to give some heals to help get the second point on Claim Jump.

Agent 46 is there to get rid of the Katanaka Sniper that my opponent will inevitably bring, as well as hopefully assisting in the strat with his execute trigger and Analyze Weakness.

Pale Rider is there for the late game massed damage, and heals on the guardian for claim jump (guardian must have at least half health left) as well as adding a little mobility for chasing down the mobile crews of the 10T. Scales will just provide buffs in the center point if he's not killed by the enemy sniper.

With everyone but Lady J and Agent 46 being a minion or enforcer, my enemy will be hard pressed to score off the strat more than once or twice. LLC and the Guardian being able to Take the Hit should help mediate the risk to those models, which protects against strat points and most of the schemes. My weakness will be if he takes Search the ruins but hopefully I'll be able to deal with a torakage running around my backline. 

What do you all think?

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23 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

With 4 ss leftover, here's my plan: the DM Recruiter is there to punish Asami for being buried, or to encourage her to unbury early. Lady J is there to kill Asami on the tabletop for Assassinate.

you mean Misaki right? because Asami summons Oni :P It's Misaki that buries herself!

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