Wyrdscape - Why not going further?

[yool1981]

I've been looking at what GW does for Warcry and Kill Team and they seem to propose thematic tables with terrain and a board.

I think this is very interesting and I know that, if Wyrd provided such packages, I would seriously consider buying them.

imho the value proposal from Warcry is very interesting with double-side printed board that combine with the core box and a few plastic terrain pieces.

I know Wyrdscape exists (and the buildings look amazing) but having "quarantine zone", "slums", "badlands", "bayou"... bundles for one "table" with terrains of the proper type, quantity and theme + a playing mat / board within the 150-200 USD price range would be great imho.

It would be easier than hand picking items from Wyrd and other suppliers to build up a themed table.

 

[Yew Arcane]

I know that Wyrd want to do more with Wyrdscapes. I think it's just a cost and supply/demand issue.

[Rob Lo]

I wonder if a 'full' table of Wyrdscape, plus a mat, would be even close to $200. I feel like it would be much more than that. 

I am all for the idea of a full table of terrain plus options, no matter who I'm buying it from. I try very hard to avoid a table that's part Plastcraft, part MDF, part whatever. The first few things from Plastcraft were like that. Nice in their way, but not a full table's worth. I thin the dark circus set came closest to that mark.

I'd love to see a full table of Wyrdscape. It would look as expensive as it would be.

[Stonewall78]

Molds are really really really expensive. When you are not on a GW scale and have it all in house it is tough to justify the cost. Since with all the trade wars you would likely now be looking outside of china for manufacturing I am sure that cost goes up even higher. I have no idea what sales are on the current stuff but I am sure once it is paid off and they see a market trend they can see if it is worth putting more into.

 

[Jesy Blue]

I remember waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, there was a tourney for 40k where each player brought their own constructed 2'x2' table piece and we put four of them together for a 4 person Kill Team free for all.

I'd love to get into making 18"x18" ones for Malifaux..... it would be cool ways to get people building terrain and ways you could build more of the community.

Just a random thought in my brain.

[Paddywhack]

Molds are very expensive and I for one am tired of buying unpainted terrain. I wish they'd partner with someone like this https://shop.battlesystems.co.uk to make terrain. I backed their most recent KS, so I can't yet say how good they are, but they have existing lines of terrain and it looks good in pictures. I'm anxious to see what it looks like in person.

The Plastcraft Malifaux stuff is OK, but they haven't put much out and they are still very expensive. I have high hopes for the Battle Systems stuff and it can fit well with Malifaux as is. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Making it in house seems unlikely in the near future.

Surely any design/mold capacity is going to be dedicated to releasing M3E models? I'd not expect they'd make terrain until they have all models updated for this edition?

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Paddywhack's suggestion makes the most sense to me. Partnerships exist for a reason (to enable specialising). 

I'm not privy to internal Wyrd information, though, so there might be 100 different reasons that wouldn't work.

[tmod]

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Making it in house seems unlikely in the near future.

Surely any design/mold capacity is going to be dedicated to releasing M3E models? I'd not expect they'd make terrain until they have all models updated for this edition?

We've seen renders suggesting they have designed a lot already. The issue is probably how much capital to sink into molds, as that gets expensive fast. I'm struggling to buy as many wyrdscapes building as I want due to the price tag, but man are the ones I've got awesome. Really wish they could release the whole tableworth, but I'd probably take a few years to complete a set...

[yool1981]

I think the buildings are very nice but perhaps over detailed. I also don’t think most people need a plastic board as the one they plan to propose. A well printed mat or board is sufficient.

but that’s just my opinion.

GW bundles are around 70 Eur RSP in France but they provide less terrain than would be needed for a Malifaux game. Perhaps by lowering the Wyrdscape quality a bit and providing table bundles they may succeed at being around 200 Eur.

Or maybe not I don’t know.

I just know what I need and my budget and I was wondering if I was in the minority or if there was a broader need.

I have 3 factions so I will never expand my mini collection beyond them but I may have a budget to buy a « table » from time to time.

On the other hand, how do you push 100% beginners into the game? There is no intro set, no counters/markers, no table example, nothing... GW is more and more integrating terrain into their value proposal because it brings sales and also because this is very appealing to begin a game with a box including everything (counters, terrains, crews, rules) instead of running around finding everything from different suppliers with a very high final price of entry.

 

[LeperColony]

Unless Wyrd has been secretly working on a big release, I don't think Wyrdscapes are going to be a full table option for many years, if ever.

Personally, and I've mentioned this in another thread on the subject, I'd prefer if they used Wyrdscapes to focus more on a Malifaux specific aesthetic.  The Solarium is a good building, in my opinion because it's different. 

Ruined walls I can get anywhere, and cheaper too.

[blueskies_overhead]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:49 AM, yool1981 said:

 

imho the value proposal from Warcry is very interesting with double-side printed board that combine with the core box and a few plastic terrain pieces.

 

Warcry is quite possibly the best starter set value ever made. That also means it is a mega loss leader. GW can afford to take that loss because it wants you to start playing Age of Sigmar and get hooked in. 

One thing though is that the warcry board is less than half the size of the standard 3 by 3 malifaux board.

Infinity has a good solution here where they have excellent starter sets with smaller poster boards and some cheap terrain. 

But Wyrd seems agains starter sets for some reason. 

[solkan]

 

48 minutes ago, blueskies_overhead said:

But Wyrd seems agains starter sets for some reason. 

Right.  We'll just let you go on social media and defend to the new players the fact that leaders X and Y were chosen for the starter box, instead of the other 50+ choices that could have been made.  Or did you want to volunteer for "Explaining why the other releases are being delayed for the production of 8 to 16 new starter boxes" or "Explaining to Wyrd where the money for the new starters in addition to everything else comes from"?  🤷‍♀️

 

[LeperColony]

38 minutes ago, solkan said:

We'll just let you go on social media and defend to the new players the fact that leaders X and Y were chosen for the starter box, instead of the other 50+ choices that could have been made.

Games Workshop faces the same issue and they release a ton of "stand alone" games that are essentially starter sets.  Of course, almost all of those include Space Marines and Malifaux doesn't have a similar dominant faction.

I actually agree with the sentiment that Wyrd appears relatively uninterested in starter sets as a product.  Would such a set be effective at introducing new players to Malifaux?  I can only speak anecdotally, but I think so if they included two 4-5 model crews with straight forward rules, some terrain and a custom scenario.  "How do I start" or "what do I need" are not infrequent questions online, and while I don't think the lack of a starter set deters anyone really interested, I do think that a well made introductory product could be useful.

[Adran]

I don't know the sale figures for the M2 starter set, but I know a lot of existing players didn't bother getting it.  Did it make enough to cover it's costs, or was it a loss leader that bought in enough customers? We just don't know. They may be planning a M3 starter set, but it's even harder this edition to make it useable by existing players. 

[Medic6666]

I'm really interested and not put off, but a starter set of two teams that are closely matched and any cards and such that go with them to get going would be a lot simpler. Terrain not a big issue as a tissue box and a bottle of ketchup work just as well to start with.

All the options available like rule book, faction book, faction cards...ect I couldnt find any guide that says this is what you need to start playing and this is what you need to play properly and this is what you can get if you want it all. Thankfully the community was helpful and i got enough info to build my wishlist to get started.

So for me maybe a good starters guide would work as well as a starter set if it was written well enough and was uptodate.

 

[Toqtamish]

2 player starter set is basically a must. The fact M3 did not have one from the start surprised me. 

[LeperColony]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:04 AM, Adran said:

I don't know the sale figures for the M2 starter set, but I know a lot of existing players didn't bother getting it.  Did it make enough to cover it's costs, or was it a loss leader that bought in enough customers? We just don't know. They may be planning a M3 starter set, but it's even harder this edition to make it useable by existing players. 

The M2 starter set was a pretty underwhelming affair.  I've heard it said that demand in the gaming industry is relatively inelastic on price, but demanding on quality.  M2E's starter set's models didn't really excite the existing player base, who I think would have been happier even with ult sculpts of classic crews.  And I don't think it did a particularly great job of communicating a "Malifaux" aesthetic to the wider audience of non-Malifaux gamers.  The tape measures that came with it were pretty cheap too, and cheap components are the opposite of how you want to interact with new customers.

GW prices their not-starter set starter sets at around $150, and for that you get some terrain and two whole armies of around 20-30 models each.  I don't expect Wyrd to be able to match GW on production costs, but surely a $150 starter set with two crews of, say, 5-6 models each (essentially master boxes) and some terrain would be doable.  Could even make one of the two crews Explorer Society, and maybe another could be a "villains" set of Crossroads Seven-style one-per-faction Versatiles. 

This way it has something for everyone.  You get to expand on the new faction and include models for everyone else.  But also, by touching on all the factions, you can really maximize the "Malifaux-ness."  So many people, including myself, were attracted to the game because we happened to see a crew box in a game store and thought "wow, that's really cool."  Did people really feel that way about the 3 doctors and the kind of generic neverborn?  Personally I don't think so. 

 

[The_death_jester]

I'm really old fashioned and just can't bring myself to buy ready made terrain. 🙂

[yool1981]

I used the M2E starter set and I liked it but I think the main issue was the design of the set.

It was a set allowing old players to introduce the game to new players, not a real starter set as a new player may expect it to be. As such it satisfied no one as the profiles of the miniatures in it were too bad for old players to be interested in picking them up.

When I started GW games in the 90s, I picked up a starter box (WHB 4th ed) and dived directly into the GW universe with a friend of mine that also did not know anything about it. New Malifaux players have absolutely no such tool available to them.

This is a broader issue I find with Wyrd: it is too reliant on its existing community to introduce the game and do the marketing and promotion of the game. But I digress :D

My comments on the M2E starter set are the following:

+

Included easy to assemble miniatures, 4 of each of 2 widely played factions (Guild & NB) that were also mercenaries (so playable by everybody, in theory)

Included a progressive ruleset that finally brought you to a mini game with the use of scheme markers and a smaller board

Included fate decks and tape measures

-

Did not include any fluff for the rest of the game nor any intro for trully new players (no introduction of the factions nor the fluff to induce people to dive into the Malifaux universe)

Did not include any marker (I still don't get why Wyrd is not making its own marker & token sets, it is really disturbing for new players)

Did not include any board nor terrain

Only included one fully fledged scenario and thus expected you to dive right into the game

Most of the miniatures of the set had relatively bad profiles and could not really be used by old players in a competitive setting

One of the miniatures (Maurice) was imho quite ugly