Asami 3E advice

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Why would you need Flicker?  It's a 7+ to create a marker, and the suit to move the marker is built into the melee attack.

The costs are paid before the duel, so you need a flicker to create the first one (after that you may decide to gain a flicker using the Dust Devil to have it ready for the next one if you don't plan to attack/be attacked). But there are ways to gain that first one without being ineficient/putting it in risk; for example, using Jorogumo's bonus action on him the first turn and using a flicker to defend... but yeah, that one seems hard to use.

About Ohaguro... it's hard to compare a 8 SS model with a 10 SS model and expect the 8 SS model be as good as it... Ama is a better beater and seems to fit in more lists, but Ohaguro has her own niche with denying resistance triggers, movement shenanigans with the summons (which may be friendly summons), a Lure, and pulse slow. She also has diving charge, so she might be a quite good summon deliverer with Drawn to essence + Masked agent; the unnerving pressence of the upgrade would go to waste, but in some games just the with me would be good enoguh imo.

[mattbird]

If Kamatachi were significant I could see it, but as it is, no way. 

[zavros]

Ohugaro is fine, there's just an opportunity cost in taking her as she's just another beater in a faction full of beaters. I would take her mostly for the assassinate objective.

Currently there is no reason to ever take a kamaitichi, its mostly a for fun model with how awkward it is to use. I really wish it wasn't insignificant.

@CaladanCid @LeperColony

If you want to play asami mostly in keyword without mccabe, you want to at least get all the oni minions. I would say the only must haves out of those are obsidian oni, akaname, and jorogumo. I end up summoning obsidian oni way more than anything else since they are such a big problem for your opponent when you push it into a group of models to engage them and turn on its fire aura.  There's usually one turn where you summon 2 akaname to 'drop' scheme markers for objectives. You want to summon jorogumo early if you have the 13, otherwise its probably always an obsidian oni.

Asami's activation generally looks like this: summon, mother's love the summon, push summon with tendrils. Later in the game she might go around denying schemes with her bonus and pushing around enemies with tendrils. Despite being a stat 6 melee with 2/4/6, she generally doesn't want to be in melee as it keeps her from using tendrils. If you want to use her aggressively, hiring a tanuki can help by throwing focus on her freeing up her actions for attacks.

Remember that Asami's violition of reality counts herself too, so she can charge just to teleport somewhere and get bonus movement out of it since its not completely within like flight.

Another trick is using flicker on defense for yokai, which lets them place away from the attacker, so it makes it hard to get multiple attacks on them.

Overall, the faction is a bunch of mobile glass cannons. They can get where they want and do a lot of damage with their 2 free focus(flicker). The range of summons are fairly flexible so really the only thing the oni keyword is worried about is exorcism triggers, armored factions like hoffman, and ranged pressure (they have really average defense).

 

[Jesy Blue]

3 hours ago, Ogid said:

The costs are paid before the duel, so you need a flicker to create the first one (after that you may decide to gain a flicker using the Dust Devil to have it ready for the next one if you don't plan to attack/be attacked).

You know, I had so little interest in the model, I glossed over the need for flicker in the action... even worse than I initially thought.

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

You know, I had so little interest in the model, I glossed over the need for flicker in the action... even worse than I initially thought.

The requisite itself is not that bad, a way to get rid of flicker is always welcome.

The problem is the model has no defensive ability,  0 range with stat5 and pitiful damage track, Df and Mv 5 and 4 HP... with those stats is hard to do anything. And being insignificant deny him the ability to be a cheap but weak scheme runner who support the crew by cicling 1 low card each turn... it could use incorporeal or his attack being changed to a 6'' non projectile attack for example.

Maybe versus another summoner it could be worth a try...

[mattbird]

7 hours ago, Ogid said:

Maybe versus another summoner it could be worth a try...

For 4 SS, it's not. Would rather find another 6 and get the Shadow Emissary, for 7 new cards per turn to fish for 13s and Red Jokers. . 

[bedjy]

6 hours ago, mattbird said:

For 4 SS, it's not. Would rather find another 6 and get the Shadow Emissary, for 7 new cards per turn to fish for 13s and Red Jokers. . 

Well, you can't compare..

But in my original build, if i got 4 points left, I'll always consider an akaname instead. If you want the fight, it's better, if you want the control, it's better, and if you want anything else... it's better ? The only crew I'll consider Kamaitachi against are Ulix and som'er, since I'll be able to draw multiple cards per turn.
Also, cycling after summoning is pretty bad...

When I'm playing Asami in a schemy Scenario (or outflank, or breakthrough, or power ritual, or... or ...), I've got some difficulties not to take Minako Rei (well, I always take her, I have to admit..). Katashiro are just awesome. My last crew I've been pretty happy with was :

Asami + totem
Minako Rei : 8
Obsidian Oni : 7
Sun Quiang : 8
Akaname x2 : 8

That's 31Ss, so there is 19SS left (we need at least 7-8Ss in the pool to deal with summons and protection.
With that setup, you can attack your model with the Oni, placing scraps. discard a card to place it in base contact with Sun Quiang. When Sun Quiang will activate he will be able to remove burning, move ahead (the attacked model should not have more than 1 damage on it) and give a focus.
When the model will activate (too far from Sun Quiang), he can just charge nothing , so it will heal 1 again (it's a place if an Oni was close enough to Asami). Remember that any time asami take damage from her ability, you can discard a card to place/heal her.

With those scraps, first turn, you can just summon 2 katashiro that does not attach summon upgrades. Those models are just f'kin awesome.

When I summon, I'm not really found of all the cheaper minions, because they need too much care, most of their interesting stuff make them gain flicker (akaname's marker drop, Yokai's interact..) Tengu are very good models for their cost. They can lay 2 schemes a turn, they are mobile and have 5Wd for 4Ss. Their attack is ok+. But I've not really had the occasion to put some on the table... Katashiro are just soooo much better.

Yokai are pretty bad models in my opinion.. They have too many ways to gain flicker and none to loose some (but killing, which is far from being auto). They compete with Obsidian Oni for damage and with katashiro for mobility. I'll always choose one of those 2.

[Jesy Blue]

1 hour ago, bedjy said:

Yokai are pretty bad models in my opinion.. They have too many ways to gain flicker and none to loose some (but killing, which is far from being auto). They compete with Obsidian Oni for damage and with katashiro for mobility. I'll always choose one of those 2.

Yokai are some of our best aggressive scheme runners, and one of their triggers does remove flicker.  Several times I have charged, flicker placed out of being engaged, charged again, flicker placed again, and bonus action dropped a scheme marker now 16" from where I started to score that last point.

Mind you, Katashiro are much better, but I don't see the O. Oni being better, even at a higher price.   But then again, I don't run Rei, just didn't appeal to me, so don't need scrap markers with my style of play; but to each their own... c'est la vie, if you will.

[wizuriel]

22 hours ago, Ogid said:

The costs are paid before the duel, so you need a flicker to create the first one (after that you may decide to gain a flicker using the Dust Devil to have it ready for the next one if you don't plan to attack/be attacked). 

Costs are paid after declaring, but before a duel (step 2 resolving actions of 23). I don't think there is anything preventing you from declaring from beyond to gain a flicker and  to the duel then remove the flicker to pay for dust devil

[Nikodemus]

2 minutes ago, wizuriel said:

Costs are paid after declaring, but before a duel (step 2 resolving actions of 23). I don't think there is anything preventing you from declaring from beyond to gain a flicker and  to the duel then remove the flicker to pay for dust devil

"From Beyond: Before performing a duel, ..."

"Pay any Costs" is step 2, as you noted. "Perform Duels" is step 4.

Rulebook even states, on page 10 under "Modify the Duel":

"If either player has any effects that resolve before performing a duel, they resolve now."

'Now' being step 4.

[frumpypigskin]

@bedjy

I like how you've found all these OOK ability synergies! I love Minako in Foundry so can appreciate you wedging her into Oni. Especially if you're running 2 anakame and an obsidian although it does seem like a lot of work for the Katashiro compared to Foundry. What do you do with Minako once the 2 katashiro are out? I've often found she can take another turn or 2 to become relevant again after being left in the deployment zone...

 

I also really liked how you've picked up that Sun's bedside manner is triggered Asamis' own ability. This would seem to put you under a lot of hand pressure to make all this work but I Suppose the flicker will go some way to helping with being effective with next to no hand.

 

@Jesy Blue and other Oni players has anyone been able to use the yokai's interact while engaged ability to good effect? I feel like it would be good in Idols? Sit on the idol early in the turn then throw a yokai over to it to make your model move it as if you had don't mind me out of activation. Seems worth paying the extra hp in damage (considering its a summoning crew). The yokai could stand where the idol is placed too for extra security. I feel like these sort of tricks may be necessary if we're constantly giving the opponent pass tokens that they can use to get the idol where they want it. 

This crew, with tricks like this and it's mobility, seems better than most at covering the whole Idol's board. Maybe even in corner/flank.

 

I don't have any akaname yet so I don't feel confident trying her out just yet but I'm looking forward to when I can soon.