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Ogid

Killjoy mechanics: Eternal Sacrifice

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Hi! I've been checking Killjoy a bit and just want to check his mechanics with you guys because it sounds quite good. In a nutsell: Unless his demise is ignored, he heals 4 and bury when he is killed. 2 Models added the Blood Sacrifice upgrade at the start of the game, so they can use Complete the Ritual to unbury him at the cost of killing themselves. So far so good.

However, Complete the Ritual doesn't say it ignores the Demise abilities. Blood Sacrifice in a Demise(Eternal) model (like Serena) would let that model unbury him, kill himself and then use his Demise (Eternal) to save himself (it'd work once per turn). Relevant rules in pg25 (killed)

Plus, Complete the Ritual doesn't have the requirement of using it when Killjoy is buried. So Demise (Eternal) models could activate the ability even if Killjoy is still "alive" (the unbury would fail, but they would kill themselves) to trigger their demise and heal 4. The other side of the coin tho: It would make them quite vulnerable to controlling effects (as Complete the Ritual isn't a bonus action), models like Zoraida could make the Ritual carriers kill themselves by forcing them to use Complete the Ritual once (or twice in the case of Eternal models). Relevant rules in pg 23 (step 5)

I have some doubts about this last one because the wording is "Do this, then kill the model". Not sure if "then" is marking the timming or making the unbury a requirement; but as the requirements are in italics, I guess it's only a timming thing.

So, should I pair him with at least 1 Eternal model and also be extra careful with crews with access to obey abilities?

Thanks in advance!

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10 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Hi! I've been checking Killjoy a bit and just want to check his mechanics with you guys because it sounds quite good. In a nutsell: Unless his demise is ignored, he heals 4 and bury when he is killed. 2 Models added the Blood Sacrifice upgrade at the start of the game, so they can use Complete the Ritual to unbury him at the cost of killing themselves. So far so good.

However, Complete the Ritual doesn't say it ignores the Demise abilities. Blood Sacrifice in a Demise(Eternal) model (like Serena) would let that model unbury him, kill himself and then use his Demise (Eternal) to save himself (it'd work once per turn). Relevant rules in pg25 (killed)

Plus, Complete the Ritual doesn't have the requirement of using it when Killjoy is buried. So Demise (Eternal) models could activate the ability even if Killjoy is still "alive" (the unbury would fail, but they would kill themselves) to trigger their demise and heal 4. The other side of the coin tho: It would make them quite vulnerable to controlling effects (as Complete the Ritual isn't a bonus action), models like Zoraida could make the Ritual carriers kill themselves by forcing them to use Complete the Ritual once (or twice in the case of Eternal models). Relevant rules in pg 23 (step 5)

I have some doubts about this last one because the wording is "Do this, then kill the model". Not sure if "then" is marking the timming or making the unbury a requirement; but as the requirements are in italics, I guess it's only a timming thing.

So, should I pair him with at least 1 Eternal model and also be extra careful with crews with access to obey abilities?

Thanks in advance!

The kill isn't dependent on Killjoy being unburried.

Yes, complete the ritual is good when paired with Demise(Eternal), and it you need to watch out for obeys.

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You're missing a crucial rule on pg. 25

Quote

If a model was Healed  after  being 
killed by a game effect (as opposed
to being reduced to 0 Health), then 
being Healed does not prevent it
from being killed.

A model with Demise (Eternal) still dies after using Complete the Ritual since they were killed by an effect and not by being reduced to 0 Health. If a model Obeys a model to Complete the Ritual then they die and Demise (Eternal) can't save them.

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As Thangoruin said, there is one crucial issue, and that is Demise (eternal) does not stop you being killed itself. All it does is heal you.

Its often missed by people, because most of the time the rules do combine to stop your death, but Demise (eternal)l does not keep you alive by itself.

 

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Haha, I must be blind! Ty guys, it sounded too good to be true.

By the way, who are your usual ritual holders? Cheap models like wicked dolls or something a bit stronger like the knights?

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I usually use knights as ritual holders. They're resilient enough to still be around when you need them to complete the ritual, and good beaters on they're own so you can still keep pressure on the opponent.  As a bonus you can replace one with mold of the other. 

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