Tourney prep

[Cronex13]

Hello again all,

So there's a tourney happening in October and im also hoping to make it into the Masters Tourney in the USFT.

So this weekend, I'm doing tourney prep games. Practicing competitive level games with another buddy who's also going. 2 hours long, no takebacks, brutal as fuck games

So I present below the scenarios for the 2 games we will be playing and the list I made for game 1.

My list with game 1 has a really specific plan in mind. Grimwell nimble and walks up and places a scheme marker, while the dogs all pick a flank to run to. Then the rest of the crew sets about establishing a perimeter of scheme markers in the nearby area.

Turn 2, Grimwell joins the dogs and the 4 of them all run up a flank together. Note that all 5 explosives markers will be with the that group, hereby called the Flank Wing.

Meanwhile, the rest of the group settles in on the edge of the deployment zone. From there, they can defend against anyone trying to do the strat, breakthrough or search the ruins. The opponent has to come to me to get assassinate or dig their graves. Unsure of how Take Prisoner is gonna go down.

My opponent is Mei Feng. Lots of mobility cuz they're 10T. But I nullify that (to a degree) by sitting in place. They have tons of scrap they drop, but I'm hoping the Investigator and Hunter can help deal with that. 

Note that my guard collection is somewhat limited.

I don't have Queeg. I have all guild patrols and guild hounds. Only have 2 of the 3 riflemen. No mounted guard, and only 1 Executioner and 1 Warden. 

Open to thoughts on the first list, and ideas on a good crew for the second! 

I'm really hoping to get the best practice in I can because I WANT to go get the win at the tourney AND rep guild in the USFT

[Adran]

This is my opinion, so feel free to ignore it. 

If you want to do well at events the most important thing is YOU know how your crew works and what bits can cover what roles. It's not the list that win games, its the tactics and ability to adapt to the game state that wins. 

And the best way to find that out is try and fail. And understand why it failed. 

To me, your flanking group looks fragile, and against Mei feng it costs her very little in tempo to engage and kill the group. ( most things will be able to ride the rails back to the middle quickly. ) I know if I was facing it I would dedicate a significant force to dealing with it, as its going to score the bulk of your points.  

Facing dashel I probably would try and avoid scheme marker schemes because I'm just handing him better summons.  So it's unlikely you need to prevent breakthrough and search the ruins. 

But I may be wrong. And winning this game doesn't mean the tactic always will work, just like losing doesn't mean it's a bad tactic, it just might have not been right for this game. 

 

[Cronex13]

You are absolutely right friend and this is exactly the kind of feedback i was looking for!

You're right about the flanking force, they're fragile. However, I lack some of the tougher scheme runners atm (literally any of the horse models for instance 😂) so instead I'm trying to drown it in extra models. I know Mei Feng herself can throw around explosive attacks but if anything engages the crew, they either have to stay put and fight and MAYBE win a fight (remember that the dogs will be at stat 8 or 9) or kill a model or two and walk away. Regardless, this gives me the option of at least 1 or 2 strat points. 

However, he could easily just take "take prisoner" and "dig their graves" and basically farm the Flank Wing. Hard to say what he will do.

That said, if you have the time, I'd love to see you make a list and maybe we can compare ideas?

[Cursed25]

5 hours ago, Cronex13 said:

(remember that the dogs will be at stat 8 or 9)

dogs vs armor are very weak! they won't do much!

 

also the stat 7-8 is only during the dog activation! so not in defense!

[Cronex13]

True, to a point. The best way to fight armor is either armor ignoring attacks, or tons of low damage attacks, which the pack of dogs is good for. Don't forget Grimwell is there too and can hand out a bit higher damage, as well as being able to use his bonus to push a doggy out of combat if necessary.

[eddy]

In plant explosives you can free focus hounds to get them fast near Taggart. Then you pus3" move move and drop 3-4 explosives t1

[Cronex13]

3 hours ago, eddy said:

In plant explosives you can free focus hounds to get them fast near Taggart. Then you pus3" move move and drop 3-4 explosives t1

Eddy, that's an incredible combo. Didn't even consider how effective that is. Well spotted! However, I don't own Queeg. You may have convinced me to get him however. I think I'll model sub him for the game! I'll take out Grimwell as he isn't particularly survivable, only took him cuz he has nimble.

I'm also gonna run the hunter up as he can do the very same thing! Plus a 3" push at the end of the turn as well.

[Cronex13]

UPDATE: just bought him. Turns out most places were sold out but managed to get him for cheap. This is actually a really intelligent move you've come up with, have you had a lot of success with Dashel or just a flash of inspiration there?

[Cursed25]

5 hours ago, eddy said:

In plant explosives you can free focus hounds to get them fast near Taggart. Then you pus3" move move and drop 3-4 explosives t1

don't forget the friendly strat markers have to be 6'' from each other so you'll have to spread out your dogs a bit or else they won't be able to drop all of them

 

Also I don't think it's a good idea to throw most of your strat markers this early in the game because you won't be able to protect them all and opponent can easily take one or 2 of them and now you have to work a lot to get it back. If you don't drop them all on turn 1, dogs are really squishy with their 3 wounds and a sniper can easily kill one from long range which would also put you on the back foot 😕 This is a nice way to drop your first marker really fast while every one moves up the board but I don't think going overboard with this will help you except if you are sure you will not face any long range threat!

[Cronex13]

Solid follow up. However, with the hunter moving up there, he's going to be able to protect my markers. With my dogs all being at one health anyways, I'm not worried about them living, they will die for a cause. I've got to trust the hunter to buy enough time to score a couple points off of it.

My opponent is... Fond... Of Samurai, and he also likes a katanaka sniper here and there so I'm sure there will be a ranged something, just depends which one he brings. Either way, the dogs will take fire but he can't shoot them all. After I get my markers down, the hunter can have a field day tearing up his back line or whatever he send to take care of the flank.

[Cursed25]

28 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

Solid follow up. However, with the hunter moving up there, he's going to be able to protect my markers. With my dogs all being at one health anyways, I'm not worried about them living, they will die for a cause. I've got to trust the hunter to buy enough time to score a couple points off of it.

My opponent is... Fond... Of Samurai, and he also likes a katanaka sniper here and there so I'm sure there will be a ranged something, just depends which one he brings. Either way, the dogs will take fire but he can't shoot them all. After I get my markers down, the hunter can have a field day tearing up his back line or whatever he send to take care of the flank.

try it!  It will be interesting to know how you fared with this strategy! It could take your opponent by surprise and give you the edge!  

[4thstringer]

51 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

don't forget the friendly strat markers have to be 6'' from each other so you'll have to spread out your dogs a bit or else they won't be able to drop all of them

 

Also I don't think it's a good idea to throw most of your strat markers this early in the game because you won't be able to protect them all and opponent can easily take one or 2 of them and now you have to work a lot to get it back. If you don't drop them all on turn 1, dogs are really squishy with their 3 wounds and a sniper can easily kill one from long range which would also put you on the back foot 😕 This is a nice way to drop your first marker really fast while every one moves up the board but I don't think going overboard with this will help you except if you are sure you will not face any long range threat!

If I saw a bunch of 1 wnd def 4 models with explosives tokens on them, and I was playing a mobile crew like mei, I would start salivating.  

[Cronex13]

Welp, played the game. It worked like a charm! Dumped a fuckloads of bomb markers on his field and the doggies spent the rest of the game causing mayhem and laying down scheme markers until they were all hunted down. I saved them for last via out-activating my opponent. He eventually did go kill them all but it didn't matter, they served their purpose.

Total at the end of the game was 5-5, he also got a lot of points off the strat cuz his models used cover very well 

He also took "take prisoner" on my rifleman. I managed to deny him the second point by taking a bunch of wounds for fast (from Queeg) and he happened to have Mei Feng nearby who had the "hazardous terrain" ability on, so I walked the rifleman into the terrain and he died, but it counted as his kill so he didn't get the second point. Was hilarious!!!!!!!!

[Adran]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 4:26 PM, Cronex13 said:

That said, if you have the time, I'd love to see you make a list and maybe we can compare ideas?

Congratulations on the game,

Ok, I’ve been away from my cards, so here is a list

To start with, some Caviates

I normally build my list with the table in front of me. It will change to suit the challenges the table offers.

I have a large collection, so I’m going to build to my collection, which isn’t every guild model, but it is probably more than you have.

I seem to have a fairly strange Malifaux game style. I like to think of it as “pure” malifaux, in that I focus my play very much on scoring points and denying points. I have manged games (not this edition yet) where I have been wiped out, yet still won. I also am happy to spend actions to deny points that most people think are “easy” to score. I’m not sure if there are many of these in M3, but in M2 for example, I would often expect to deny protect territory by saving a model to move to the right place in the last turn to stop the score.

I haven’t played any Guild in M3e, so this list is based on theory. I’ll try and explain why I’ve picked what I have picked, but I have no idea if it will work or not.

 

I build my lists to achieve my aims. I generally try to make sure I can do at least 3 schemes, especially when some of them are reliant on opponents forces.

Looking at this scheme pool  I am looking at Take prisoner (enemy explosive runners can be easy prisoners), Dig their graves, Search the ruins/Breakthrough.

Assassinate against Mei is a little risky, she can easily run away if she is getting in trouble, and I don’t want to have to hunt her down, or even worse choose not to kill her when I can to try and score more points.

Likewise, I expect my opponent to struggle to get scheme points in that I can very easily use his scheme markers. I wouldn’t be surprised to face Assasinate and Take prisoner for that reason. So I will need to try and keep Dashel alive and not leave lone models out there. Lots of people feel Mei is very good at dig the graves, so I’m also looking for sneaky ways to deny it.

 

Dashel and the dispatcher

 

Warden – Hired because he is the cheapest form of Power converter. He can use it to steal Enemy scrap markers which will potentially slow down the enemy. It might not actually provide any benefit in the game, but its at least something they have to think about.

 

Guardian or Peacekeeper – Both will cost the same here. Again they have power converter.

The guardian is better at moving my crew about, which can be very handy for sneaky explosive drops, or pick ups. Also very useful for a sudden Take prisoner run. This assumes that the board provides several decent long push lanes. If it doesn’t, the peacekeeper might be better.  The guardian has Take the hit to stop Assasinate runs, but the Peacekeeper has a ranged threat as well and does much more damage. Trail of gore is probably not cropping up much, but it might, and it can be used to deny points. Scatter can also ruin a scheme if you time it right.

Watcher – This is a bit of a gamble. It’s a decent explosives runner, and has the ability to shift enemy scrap markers about if I have to. Its probably best at trying to drop its on explosive token and then trying to steal the enemy explosive tokens. It needs to get 1 power token to power it transfering power to itself, giving it great mobility.

2 dogs – for 6 points these are great explosive droppers. They are very fragile, but I would hope to hide them until they are needed. I expect them to die as soon as they become exposed, but if the don’t they can also do a lot of work in picking up dropped tokens in my half.

Mounted Guard – I know you don’t have these, but in a game where mobility is key, these are really strong. I like the combination of Ride with me and Run and gun so I would give it the no prisoners upgrade. This is my primary hunting model. If I can Rider with me a model with creep along, or something similar, then they are likely to be able to get close enough to the Guard to allow a ride with me next turn as well.

Guard Patrol-To be used with the mounted guard.

Effigy – 10 SS seems too many and I like Variety in my lists, otherwise another hound or patrol could come in. I’m also not sure on how much I would want guild upgrades, but if you hired anoteher upgrade or 2, then you might not want this model.

 

 

 

Strong picks I don’t own

Guild investigator – Its pricey at 8, but it turns enemy scrap into pushes and cards, as well as turning your own scheme marker dropping into extra movement.

 

Other plans I thought about-

Guard Sergent - great at moving scheme markers, and speeding up the whole list. If I wasn't facing Mei with her scrap markers, I may well have gone this way, as I wouldn't want the Power converter models.

 

 

Rough game plan.

Explosive markers on the 2 hounds, the watcher, the mounted guard and the patrol. I will probably put a hound on each wing, and the others near the middle ready to shift from side to side.

Dashel and the rest are largely planning on covering up near the middle to try and prevent enemy marker dropping. From this point on, my Battle plan will depend on what I face, but largely I want to try and kill enemy explosive holders fast, whilst keeping mine safe. If there is an obvious target for take prisoner I will try and leave them be for the first few turns, and hope to grab them later.

 

If a wing gets left relatively open I will try and run models down that wing to threaten Breakthrough or Search the ruins (the choice probably depends on what the table looks like, and how easy I think it would be to keep my crew alive.)

 

The guardian list is more trying to get the right models to the right place, the peacekeeper list wants to get the peacekeeper into combat fairly quickly, and try and kill as much enemy as possible to disrupt their plans.  I’m not afraid for Dashel to die, but if I expect he is the assassinate target then I will put more effort into keeping him alive. This probably involves him staying a bit further back for turns 1 and 2, dropping scheme markers and calling in re-enforcments. I either use the Harpoon on the peacekeepr, to bring the fight to me, or Toss on the guardian to try and take the fight to the enemy.

I might be able to use the Dispatcher to turn the occasional scheme marker into an enemy marker to power up the Trail of gore on occasion. It can also be used to prevent the enemy dropping its own marker in some locations to deny easy scoring.

[Cronex13]

I like the way you think about your game, and your list. This is also my approach to building lists. Every model has a purpose in either scoring or denying points. In addition, we seem to have had very similar thought processes on a lot of it. I lack the guardian or peacekeeper, so instead brought a hunter for the scheme running and taking scrap. Tool a guild patrol to keep Dashel alive with take the hit. The investigator was great in the game with collosal marker denial as well. 

[le_wahou]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

Mounted Guard – I know you don’t have these, but in a game where mobility is key, these are really strong. I like the combination of Ride with me and Run and gun so I would give it the no prisoners upgrade. This is my primary hunting model. If I can Rider with me a model with creep along, or something similar, then they are likely to be able to get close enough to the Guard to allow a ride with me next turn as well.

During 30 secs, I hoped that I misread the mounted guard. But he really does not have run and gun - my bad, I missed the part about the upgrade.

Edited September 2, 2019 by le_wahou
my bad :/

[Dark Reaper]

He gets it with the upgrade that he also mentions 😉

[Cronex13]

3 minutes ago, Dark Reaper said:

He gets it with the upgrade that he also mentions 😉

No prisoners gives it out

[Cronex13]

Shit lol was trying to quote the dude before, sorry dark reaper

PS

Metal bawkses Trump all! Death to the space elves

[Cronex13]

Can we talk about Hoffman for a sec?

I don't have him yet but will be acquiring him when his box is out.

Gives out Fast AND Analyze Weakness.

Peacekeeper had flurry, st6 and a 3/4/6 damage track?

-laughs in machine-

 

I bring this particular thing up because in my second game the other day, I faced dual master Asami / McCabe. 2 Jurogumo plus flicker for extra flips, plus McCabes sword upgrade giving out Fast AND ignoring armor, shielded, hard to wound and HtK? Both got a turn swinging the sword and they kept getting severes. Over half of my crew was dead by the end of turn 2 and my faith in the guild wavered for a second because I couldn't think of a way to possibly replicate such Savage destruction.

Looks like Hoffman can pull it off though.

Witchling Thralls with their 3/4/6 and built in crit strike (effectively 4/5/7) also have some SERIOUS potential. Queeg could give them fast when properly placed, both Perdita and Hoffman can analyze weakness. Anything else have analyze weakness that I'm missing? Also, are there any other ridiculously good combos I could be bringing to the table?

 

[Cronex13]

ROFL the guardian could just toss Lady Justice up the field towards enemies. Or it could toss low health models with explosive demise abilities (Papa Loco?)

[eddy]

Thral min is 2 

[Cronex13]

5 hours ago, eddy said:

Thral min is 2 

So it is