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Zoraida, lists, Voodoo Doll Shenanigans and general fishyness

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Zoraida was one of my favourite Masters in 2e and she has survived the transition pretty well in that her hiring pool is huge, Obey is even better than before and she has a ton of tricks.

What sort of lists do you run with her? How would you rate her Henchmen?

Are there any particular Schemes or Strategies that you find especially well-suited to her?

Also, how do you torment Voodoo Doll?

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I've just started playing her as well, and there is just so many means things you can do with her. 

I almost always include The First mate, and Bad Juju has done great work as well (despite me being a bit sceptic to him at a glance) and both McTavish and Spawn Mama seems competent for their costs. You rarely go wrong with a silurid or two, and so far I've brought one Will-o-the-Wisp in her games as well. That leaves some flexibility, but I fins myself considering a lot of her keyword in certain matchups. What she seems to lack is armoured beaters, but a decent cache can help you go far enough. 

So far she have played decently into most strats, although corrupted idols and plant explosives seem to fit her extra well. In Idols you can use her obey trigger to walk an enemy up to the idol and suffer three damage to throw it far onto their half and in explosives I've tried to advance with a decently protected swpampfiend (such as juju or a stealthed model) early so I could obey my opponents to drop their bombs on their table half (extra insult to injury of you get enscorcel to charge a friendly model afterwards). Another decent strategy in most early games is to just walk+charge backwards with the opponents most lucratice beater to deny them that movement and maybe put some damage out. And in the end game you have so many options to score your points and deny points to your opponent, it's can feel rather silly... ^_^
 

The voodoo doll feel like a special mini game in itself. My go-to tactic is to torment it with the above mentioned Wisp. Hitting it once with any crow gives distracted+1, stunned and slow to the linked model (which can be an enemy master) and efficiently shuts it down. More occasionaly I've stabbed it a little bit with Zoraida, but that has mostly been cases where I really needed that one damage that is hard to avoid. Bonus points for the doll is that you can kill it (with actions or it's own bonus action) and get scrap markers for the second point of dig their graves or gator snacks for McTavish. The first one is doable but corner case while the second one can be rather consistent!

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42 minutes ago, Erorior said:

What she seems to lack is armoured beaters, but a decent cache can help you go far enough.

Gracie and Mech Pork are Versatile and both have Armor +2 and hit plenty hard. Fitting them into a list isn't trivial, though.

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I play zoraida in never, but i play a lot of times against the best spanish player and he play zoraida gremlins.

Zoraida is best in gremlins because you dont need the upgrade to give butterfly jump, you have the upgrade to take disguised in first mate to make him inmune to all, the enemies cant charge, attack you from more than 6" and butterfly jump.

The Spawn mother its other awesome model, 8ss and summon a horde of gupps, and the gupps can make missions, and with the steath they are very annoying.

The gautreaux bokor its the best 6ss minion, heal at 8" and with the trigger draw 2 cards and give focus to your model when the enemy use a pass token, and with sammy for 1 ss more you have a lot of cards because when a friendly kin or wizz-bang model suffer damage during a friendly activation you draw a card

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I usualy play all-stealth swampfiend crew: First Mate, three Silurids, Gators/Spawn mother, Bokor. With proper positioning of her crew Zoraida can obey every model on the table from safe backline. 

I don't use Voodoo Doll much on enemies (as enemies don't come close enough), but it is very good to attack Bokor. With a built-in trigger it is fast and 3 glowy-tokens every turn. 

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i like furst mate, bayou gator and bad juju lots.
also for me groostlang is so amzing guy when it comes to do/stop something as table quaters and for 5 making conceal for Z is cool too.

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What's people's opinion on Adze? I love the mini but the profile seems to be a bit all over the place and without Stealth (and kinda lackluster defenses in general) he seems to have a giant target on his forehead. 

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Currently building a zoraida crew. Grootslang looks a strong super mobile schemer / schemer beater. Think bokor are great, as above, hit them with the doll for glowy then they heal it back up. Potential for shielded and card draw too. Gators look good for cost, particularly with execute trigger for anti demise 

Think bad juju is sweet. 

Think big brain brin looks good, arcane res is just good and option to manipulate deck are things mamma z is going to appreciate. 

Like wisps for a cheap Lure, also like the look of adze for more speed and potential to scheme. 

First mate for an all rounder, beating where needed or scheming and denying. 

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Grootslang is god tier. There's so many weird tricks you can pull off with him. 

 

Slink away melee trigger allows for tons of strange things. 

 

Very very strong. Makes 90% of my lists 

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What are peoples thoughts on taking BBB in to a zoraida crew. Feel like arcane res and the hand manipulation is worth it and he could hit the voodoo doll to hand out slow at a push. 

 

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3 hours ago, Kiryn said:

What are peoples thoughts on taking BBB in to a zoraida crew. Feel like arcane res and the hand manipulation is worth it and he could hit the voodoo doll to hand out slow at a push. 

 

I think BBB is great in any crew but extra awesome in Zoraida as she can obey him to Calculate and then refill her hand from the improved deck. You'll always find another good use for those 9 SS but the deck rigging that combo gives you allows Zoraida to do fill her crew multiplier role even better IMHO. I would mostly pick him up in a pool that dictates you build a somewhat elite crew, tho.

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Im considering Zoraida for Neverborn.

In addition to the models in her M2E core box (bad juji, silurids, totem, her), what would be the most urgent additional buys for her?

I'd most need her on scheme marker heavy games and corrupted idols. Is she good at scheme marker shenanigans?

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Off the top of my head BBB brings these tricks to a Z crew:  Auto slow on anything Cursed. Triggered Stun on anything Cursed. Protected Bayou can drop onto the Voodoo Doll if its near by.  any 9M in your hand is a free Calculate with a Bokor and a 7 for Z to do it, not to mention just how much tankier he is with a Bokor.  Turning off triggers is so good and highly underused with Brin. 

Auto Take? No not really but he's a strong consideration

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Regarding another OOK-model I've tried with success is Mancha Roja. He's an overall very stable beater with just the right amount of abilities to contribute and often be surprisingly painful to bring down, and helps vs all keywords who like dropping non-scheme marker (still trying to work out how he beats people with shadow markers :P). 

Also, the finisher trigger combos well with the rest of the crew since there are some conditions flying about (not to mention the wisp-on-doll-scenario). 

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:17 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Im considering Zoraida for Neverborn.

In addition to the models in her M2E core box (bad juji, silurids, totem, her), what would be the most urgent additional buys for her?

I'd most need her on scheme marker heavy games and corrupted idols. Is she good at scheme marker shenanigans?

It's worth getting the Zipp box just for The First Mate. Don't get me wrong, Zipp and his crew are awesome in their own right, but The First Mate is probably among the objectively best single models in M3e atm and he has some amazing synergies with Z due to having the Swampfiend keyword. He'll earn the 3 SS extra compared to a regular Silurid back in every game you pick him up in. Don't just take my word for it, proxy him into your next Z game and check it out for yourself.

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1 hour ago, Barmution said:

It's worth getting the Zipp box just for The First Mate. Don't get me wrong, Zipp and his crew are awesome in their own right, but The First Mate is probably among the objectively best single models in M3e atm and he has some amazing synergies with Z due to having the Swampfiend keyword. He'll earn the 3 SS extra compared to a regular Silurid back in every game you pick him up in. Don't just take my word for it, proxy him into your next Z game and check it out for yourself.

I would second this. I wasn't sure about him at first but having used first mate a couple of times recently I've realised he's solid gold. 

Pretty survivable with butterfly jump and stones, good damage and crazy movement. Card draw too.... If you remember!

He was mvp in my last match against raspy with collette and mei feng. Took a pounding from mei, put some wounds back in to mei, lept away, killed a wounded raspy and flipped two turf war markers in opposing half. 

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2 hours ago, Barmution said:

It's worth getting the Zipp box just for The First Mate. Don't get me wrong, Zipp and his crew are awesome in their own right, but The First Mate is probably among the objectively best single models in M3e atm and he has some amazing synergies with Z due to having the Swampfiend keyword. He'll earn the 3 SS extra compared to a regular Silurid back in every game you pick him up in. Don't just take my word for it, proxy him into your next Z game and check it out for yourself.

i want to second (third) this too.

 

First Mate always gets work done. He can do some seriously good beating. This guy can go solo on a flank and gets shit done. He never dissapointed me so far.
If i got some additional stones left, i like to give him "two gremlins in a Ghillie Suit" which gives him Disguised in addition to Butterfly Jump and Stealth. Reeaaaly nasty.

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3 hours ago, Barmution said:

It's worth getting the Zipp box just for The First Mate. Don't get me wrong, Zipp and his crew are awesome in their own right, but The First Mate is probably among the objectively best single models in M3e atm and he has some amazing synergies with Z due to having the Swampfiend keyword. He'll earn the 3 SS extra compared to a regular Silurid back in every game you pick him up in. Don't just take my word for it, proxy him into your next Z game and check it out for yourself.

The first mate in the Zipp's box seems like a low blow... it puts a heavy tax to play Zoraida in NVB. I understand they are trying to reduce the SKU numbers, but one of the best models of that keyword in a core box of a totally different keyword and faction (specially when that crew has another henchman)... seems fishy.

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6 hours ago, Erorior said:

Regarding another OOK-model I've tried with success is Mancha Roja. He's an overall very stable beater with just the right amount of abilities to contribute and often be surprisingly painful to bring down, and helps vs all keywords who like dropping non-scheme marker (still trying to work out how he beats people with shadow markers :P). 

Also, the finisher trigger combos well with the rest of the crew since there are some conditions flying about (not to mention the wisp-on-doll-scenario). 

Mancha is a true boss whenever I bring him. He's usually a counter measure. Picking up Underbrush markers or Ice Pillars is just rude to those crews. Beating them with them is even more rude! Plus in a strategy like Idols, having juggernaut is a big deal. 

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2 hours ago, Ogid said:

The first mate in the Zipp's box seems like a low blow... it puts a heavy tax to play Zoraida in NVB. I understand they are trying to reduce the SKU numbers, but one of the best models of that keyword in a core box of a totally different keyword and faction (specially when that crew has another henchman)... seems fishy.

The First Mate was originally packaged with Zipp when he was released in M2E. Therefore, this wouldn’t be the result of trying to reduce SKU numbers.

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35 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

The First Mate was originally packaged with Zipp when he was released in M2E. Therefore, this wouldn’t be the result of trying to reduce SKU numbers.

Maybe not reducing, but keeping them low. He should had been packaged differently in M3 to let NVB players get it without a full core from other faction imo, specially considering how the keywords works in M3. Alone or with some versatile-Swampfiend for example... I don't mind getting some models I won't use from a box, but just 1 model out of a core is too much (and the others are unplayabe for a NVB player unless that player switchs to Bayou and get extra models)

Imagine Bad Juju would have also the Fae keyword and it were in the Titania core box in the place of Aestlin (who would be packaged in some other box); so any Bayou player would have to buy the Titania starter to get it. Would that be ok? It's either a gigantic overlook or a "dirty" way to sell Zipp core boxes, I hope it's the former.

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2 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Maybe not reducing, but keeping them low. He should had been packaged differently in M3 to let NVB players get it without a full core from other faction imo, specially considering how the keywords works in M3. Alone or with some versatile-Swampfiend for example... I don't mind getting some models I won't use from a box, but just 1 model out of a core is too much (and the others are unplayabe for a NVB player unless that player switchs to Bayou and get extra models)

Imagine Bad Juju would have also the Fae keyword and it were in the Titania core box in the place of Aestlin (who would be packaged in some other box); so any Bayou player would have to buy the Titania starter to get it. Would that be ok? It's either a gigantic overlook or a "dirty" way to sell Zipp core boxes, I hope it's the former.

Its just a matter of keeping costs down for the company honestly. They'd have to remake the sprues for FM to sell him in a new box and that's expensive without redesigning him all together. Its an unfortunate growing pain that happens when you have a model that can be brought into 3 different factions. 

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1 minute ago, Ogid said:

Maybe not reducing, but keeping them low. He should had been packaged differently in M3 to let NVB players get it without a full core from other faction imo, specially considering how the keywords works in M3. Alone or with some versatile-Swampfiend for example... I don't mind getting some models I won't use from a box, but just 1 model out of a core is too much (and the others are unplayabe for a NVB player unless that player switchs to Bayou and get extra models)

Imagine Bad Juju would have also the Fae keyword and it were in the Titania core box in the place of Aestlin (who would be packaged in some other box); so any Bayou player would have to buy the Titania starter to get it. Would that be ok? It's either a gigantic overlook or a "dirty" way to sell Zipp core boxes, I hope it's the former.

I think its neither.

The Zipp box is only a couple of years old, and probably not one they are considering re-making at the moment. The sprue is 1 piece for him and several other models of the box. They could have worked to re-package the box, but the game designers and the marketing/production people are not the same people.

So you then had a few options during the M3 process - either not make the first mate a swamp fiend, make him a swampfiend, but a bad one, or just make him balanced and don't look at the distribution as a criteria. I know for quite a while during the testing I was very unimpressed with the first mates stats. He does look a lot better now though.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Maybe not reducing, but keeping them low. He should had been packaged differently in M3 to let NVB players get it without a full core from other faction imo, specially considering how the keywords works in M3. Alone or with some versatile-Swampfiend for example... I don't mind getting some models I won't use from a box, but just 1 model out of a core is too much (and the others are unplayabe for a NVB player unless that player switchs to Bayou and get extra models)

Imagine Bad Juju would have also the Fae keyword and it were in the Titania core box in the place of Aestlin (who would be packaged in some other box); so any Bayou player would have to buy the Titania starter to get it. Would that be ok? It's either a gigantic overlook or a "dirty" way to sell Zipp core boxes, I hope it's the former.

That is a bad example as Aeslin was originally packaged with Titania in M2E when her box was released alongside Zipp’s. 

@Mrbedlam has a point. TFM can be taken in Outcasts, Neverborn, and the Bayou so there is no perfect way to package him unless he was by himself, which would mean a new sprue or some Zipp players being salty that their Silurid was cut off of the sprue. I think their decision to leave him packaged with his original thematic Master was the best choice after all things considered. I don’t see anything dirty about that.

On a half-funny side note, if he ends up performing too consistently in his Jack-of-All-Trades role he will be hit with the nerf anchor and it won’t be a problem anymore.

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