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Disappointment in Investigators


4thstringer

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2 hours ago, Zebo said:

December Acolyte: 7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp5, no abilities.

Willie: 7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp5, evasive.

The Firestarter: 7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp5, no abilities.

There are lots of 7ss models easier to kill than the Investigator.

All of those are ranged models, so in an actual game they are not easier to kill than investigators. Besides, other models being too squishy doesn't make investigator any more durable.

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Ok, I do think the investigator is a bit high by maybe 1 point. But here is why I love using investigators. 

Please keep in mind that Lucious is a card grabbing, multiple activation and deadly with the new Agent 46 along with something that Agent can use with Mimic to pick up some deadly attacks. 

Which is where the Investigators come in. 

1) Investigators have a push scheme bubble that works in collaboration with Lawyers, since they drop scheme markers that cause the investigator to freely move enemy models 3 inches away from the scheme marker. This allows Agent 46 to make another charge with the model that the investigator pushed back. 

2) Investigator can also discard a card to make the a negative on attack flips, which helps a bit from what I have found.  Remember, Lucious is a multiple activation crew with the 3 lawyers that he comes with. Lawyers that shield other models and drop scheme markers in the process. Thus again causing the investigators bubble to push them away again. 

3) The stagger does cause some mayhem in combination with the card drops for a negative flip on attacks, which can also cause a negative flip on damage flips if they flip a low card to take away another high card. 

If you are looking for a straight beater crew; then this may not be your type of crew. It is a trick annoying crew to opponents, but they will pick you off one by one if you don't take advantage of grabbing cards when activating models outside of their turn (once per turn) and make your addition activations count. 

 

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6 hours ago, Myyrä said:

other models being too squishy doesn't make investigator any more durable

Only pointing that Investigator is not under de curve in what a 7ss toughness should be. 

5 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I'd have to look but I suspect that they all have significant demise abilities too.

Willie has explosive +3, the other two have nothing.

I'm not saying that the Investigator is awesome, nor an autotake, but I felt that everybody was talking about the Investigator's melee attack and anti-scheme shenanigans, while I think almost his most powerful possibility is to drop scheme markers at range and nobody is taking it seriously.

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Don't get me wrong, the fact that it's a possibility is something that shouldn't be overlooked, it's cool that he can pull it off, but he can't do so reliably. Stat without it built in means you HAVE to cheat (assuming you don't get ridiculously lucky) and that means that it's very likely that your opponent can beat you, and probably with an easier card.

I don't want to downplay the fact that this ability is great when it works, but it's not reliable, so it's hard to see the value of it.

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1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Only pointing that Investigator is not under de curve in what a 7ss toughness should be.

The right toughness for a 7ss model is not determined only by how durable other 7ss models are. It is determined by how durable all the models in the game are. I know quite a bit about that, because I have run quite extensive simulations at one point, to compare how much punishment different models can take.

7wounds.png?dl=1

I also have a huge excel file that has all the models in the game ranked by durability, but it used old beta rules and the way I collected the stats caused a lot of wrong stats and other weirdness into the tables. You can take a look if you want, but you don't have to come to tell me there are mistakes and weirdness in the data, I know. The calculated durability does however match the stats visible on the sheet. I only computed the effects of armor, incorporeal (probably using the old incorporeal) and hard to wound. The simulator does support other kinds of defensive abilities and attacks as well, but I couldn't gather the data for those so easily. Maybe I should ask if someone already has all the stats in a nice big table.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vu41zm0cvmalnkq/durability_comparison.xlsx?dl=0

It's better to download that and look at it in excel, because you can sort the data based on the cost of the models or whatever.

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