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4thstringer

Disappointment in Investigators

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How much is a card a turn and a few 3" pushes worth to you?  If you said 7 stones, then you agree with wyrd as to the value of these models.  Because they aren't fast, they will rarely get the first charge off to be able to reach anyone.  So they will have to use an action to engage just so you can make a 1/2/3 attack and give staggered?  But the staggered won't matter, since they are gonna stay there and beat you down.  

They also have  a ranged attack with an 8" range, that will .... make your opponent discard a card.  wooo hooo.   Stat 5 because we don't want it to be too scary, and a few triggers that can be useful.

The only use i can think of is putting them guarding a corner from power ritual, putting up their bubble, and just sitting there.  But that feels awful limited.

I guess the irresistable push could matter, but since it is now only away from the model it just really isn't good. 

Is anyone getting production out of these guys?

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Sounds like all the Elite models except the Doppel and Henchmen, until you remember they're in a Lucius crew and will reliably be taking 1-2 actions out of activation at opportune times every turn.

That said, it does look like the kind of model that comes in to scheme marker heavy pools and sits out otherwise, but he's incredibly disruptive if positioned right.

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Anything with zero engagement range needs to be super awesome in something else. Investigators, orderlies, nurse H I never take. Changelings are the only model I gladly take even without any. Everything else is very situational. Too much of a handicap.

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I bring an investigator sometimes. Their abilities are tied to staggered and scheme marker dropping, so I like them with models that drop scheme markers and/or have abilities that works with staggered. Reid, Grimwell and False Witnesses are amongst the investigators best friends. The false witness interaction is pretty good, with up to 4 models getting pushed in a single activation, which will also help the Investigators circumvent that annoying 0" somewhat.

 

Edit: This is of course dependent on the false witnesses staying the same as in open beta.

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1 hour ago, Dark Reaper said:

I bring an investigator sometimes. Their abilities are tied to staggered and scheme marker dropping, so I like them with models that drop scheme markers and/or have abilities that works with staggered. Reid, Grimwell and False Witnesses are amongst the investigators best friends. The false witness interaction is pretty good, with up to 4 models getting pushed in a single activation, which will also help the Investigators circumvent that annoying 0" somewhat.

 

Edit: This is of course dependent on the false witnesses staying the same as in open beta.

Yeah they are the same.

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They seem fine. The 0"  melee is rough but turning off your opponent's schemes is also really good. They really benefit from lucius/lawyers taking extra actions with them after they stab someone, they turn into stat 7 min3 beaters that are hard to disengage from. Hitting them with a big model is hard, you can just throw away cards to hand out - flips. 

They definitely have downsides, they don't want to fight more than 1 model at a time. They aren't super mobile and 0" reach will make you waste an action sometimes to hit someone.

I don't think you take more than one unless your against those factions that spam corpse/scrap markers (ressers/mei feng).

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Scheme marker shenanigans with False Lawyers and the Lawyer's tome trigger, as well as Lucius' push trigger on issue command should see you not needing to use too many actions moving inside an engagement.

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14 minutes ago, Yew Arcane said:

Hi, I don't play any Guild, but I think you all might be underestimating the power of hand denial.

I like discard abilities, but a stat 5 that does nothing more than discard a single card at 8" range is not good.  Especially for as expensive a model as this one.

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9 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I like discard abilities, but a stat 5 that does nothing more than discard a single card at 8" range is not good.  Especially for as expensive a model as this one.

And draws you a card if they're within 3" of a scheme (when you're already taking him into scheme-heavy pools) with two good triggers, in the same crew as Lucius who can potentially look at the opponent's hand to determine if that discard is worth it.

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Once my Gencon order comes in I plan to try them in Neverborn. Using Agent46 to take the Emissary's ranged attack to hand out staggered and get them next to something to garrote it. I feel like it will take too much set-up in the end but I want to give it a shot!

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1 minute ago, Flat Tooth said:

Once my Gencon order comes in I plan to try them in Neverborn. Using Agent46 to take the Emissary's ranged attack to hand out staggered and get them next to something to garrote it. I feel like it will take too much set-up in the end but I want to give it a shot!

I've made entire lists in guild around that tbh.  Using the field reporters to do the same.  It worked alright. 

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7 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

How much is a card a turn and a few 3" pushes worth to you?  If you said 7 stones, then you agree with wyrd as to the value of these models.  Because they aren't fast, they will rarely get the first charge off to be able to reach anyone.  So they will have to use an action to engage just so you can make a 1/2/3 attack and give staggered?  But the staggered won't matter, since they are gonna stay there and beat you down. 

Other than the fact that you can put the opponent at a negative to attack you, and that you deal +2 damage if they have staggered

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I've been having success with investigators with lucius theybare proven to be very killy even with 0" melee.

 

Also taking 1 field reporter with them and been useful for ensuring I give out the stagger needed. 

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I've been bringing investigators to every game ive played recently, here's my take on them:

I bring them solely for the purpose of scheme denial. 7 soulstones to stop or at least delay Victory Points to the enemy seems a good trade to me. Anything he does beyond that is just extra. So with that in mind, gotta have the right schemes in mind. Power ritual is good, but dig their graves, detonate charges, and others are excellent as well for him. His AP get him to where he needs to be and his bonus throws up the anti victory point field until he is removed (which is made marginally harder, if costly, by their defensive ability.)

It's great that they have a stat 7 and all, but I don't like him as a beater because that often means he has to go to the enemy, and as you've pointed out, that can be a pain (less so with Lucius and Obey stuffs).

Whereas if the enemy is attempting to preform power ritual, they have to remove your dude first, which means they will come to you. 0" engagement does hurt but the point isn't to necessarily kill your enemy.

On top of that, if he's positioned right, he's just giving you a free card which, circumstantially, can be a gamechanger.

If he's protecting models from detonate charges, his "push models that drop markers" is absolutely mad! Someone walks up and drops a marker, they get pushed away. The investigator can then activate and walk up and remove the scheme marker and STILL cast his aura. Absolutely solid stuff for very specific purpose if you ask me.

If you're determined to use his melee more, Heartsbane gives out staggered I believe, as does Alan Reid? (Not super sure on who all gives it out, never really mattered much to me since he's got the trigger built in.)

That's my take, hope you manage to make him work for you!

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I think that the possibility of dropping your scheme markers up to 8" is quite awesome, specially in a crew where so many models can obey him.

Yes, it only works with :tome, but the card draw of this crew could be the best in the game, so not such a big deal. 

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2 hours ago, Zebo said:

I think that the possibility of dropping your scheme markers up to 8" is quite awesome, specially in a crew where so many models can obey him.

Yes, it only works with :tome, but the card draw of this crew could be the best in the game, so not such a big deal. 

That's a stat 5 opposed duel with a :tome not included on a model that con not use soulstones. I would not choose a scheme that depends of this, except if I plan to use this attack on my models.

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Well, if the :tome were in-built, the investigator would be an auto take for Detonate Charges, and probably also on Breakthrough, Harness the Ley Line, Search the Ruins and Dig Their Graves. No matter the keyword, the Investigator would be seen almost in every game.

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I think they suffer from the same problem as so many other Guild models in the 3rd edition do, they are just not durable enough for their cost. This kind of leaves you with a 7ss model that cannot do anything reliably. Either he's in a wrong place or the opponent chooses non-marker schemes and he does nothing, or he would be in the right place and able to disrupt the opponent's plans, but the opponent will just kill him in one activation.

Like 4thstringer said in the first post, that leaves them only being able to reliably draw some cards and give out a couple of pushes.

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I played my first game with an Investigator last night, in a Lucius crew. Lucius, Scribe, Pale Rider, 46, Doppleganger, Lawyer, Changeling, Investigator. Normally I would have a pathfinder instead of the Investigator.

It wasn't a great scheme pool for him, neither of us took schemes which needed markers but I put claim jump on him with the plan to get him in position and move any enemies away by placing markers. He ended up dying turn 3 before he could score even with getting shielded from the lawyer each turn and a few cards dropped on intimidating authority.

He was fun and I can see enough potential that I'll try them out a bit more, but I'm fairly sure it will always be better to hire in that Pathfinder instead.

I love the models though!

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1 hour ago, Myyrä said:

they are just not durable enough for their cost.

7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp6, Intimidating Authority. 

It's as tough as any other 7ss model.

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40 minutes ago, Zebo said:

7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp6, Intimidating Authority. 

It's as tough as any other 7ss model.

It's as tough as most 7ss models and most of them are too easy to kill to be viable. 

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4 hours ago, Zebo said:

7ss, 7Wd, Df5, Wp6, Intimidating Authority. 

It's as tough as any other 7ss model.

 

3 hours ago, Myyrä said:

It's as tough as most 7ss models and most of them are too easy to kill to be viable. 

I'm not even sure that's true.  7ss seems like they would have another defensive tech of some kind.  Manip, disguised, stealth, a resistance trigger, anything.  Shielded 1.   Especially since there is a cost to intimidating authority.

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