Black Joker on Damage Flip and triggers

[Hot4Perdita]

Had a situation last night that the rulebook could not clarify.

My model was on last wound and had the stunned condition when attacked by Poltergiest’s sharp claw attack action. The attack succeeded with the Hopelessness trigger, which states “Target must be Stunned. When resolving, the target suffers +1 damage”. However, the black joker came up on the damage flip for 0 damage. Does my model still die due to the  +1 damage of the hopelessness trigger? Or does the black joker negate everything? 

[WUWU]

You can see on page 9 of the rules PDF, that the Black Joker "does 0 damage (which cannot be modified) and does not generate any blasts (if applicable)."

 

So I would say that it does zero damage

[Hot4Perdita]

I did read that, but it doesn’t address the effects of a trigger that was successful prior to the damage flip. “0 damage that cannot be modified” leads me to believe that it means no damage cheats can occur with a black joker. Also, the attack did not generate any blasts. 

Thanks for your opinion on that. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

[theamazingmrg]

2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I did read that, but it doesn’t address the effects of a trigger that was successful prior to the damage flip. “0 damage that cannot be modified” leads me to believe that it means no damage cheats can occur with a black joker. Also, the attack did not generate any blasts. 

Thanks for your opinion on that. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Page 45 of the physical book has the specific rules for how Black Jokers affect flips.  Specifically: "A player cannot Cheat Fate if they flipped a Black Joker. "

 

So, a Black Joker on the damage flip is 0 unmodifiable damage that cannot be Cheated.

[Adran]

0 that can not be modified  is 0 after a trigger has tried to do +1 to it.  If the trigger does a separate source of damage, it still would. 

[Hot4Perdita]

4 minutes ago, Adran said:

0 that can not be modified  is 0 after a trigger has tried to do +1 to it.  If the trigger does a separate source of damage, it still would. 

So, the model takes the +1 damage from the successful trigger and dies. Thanks. That’s the way I was leaning, since it never specifically stated that the black joker negated any triggers, plus the actual trigger itself says “when resolving” not “after damaging”.

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

So, the model takes the +1 damage from the successful trigger and dies. Thanks. That’s the way I was leaning, since it never specifically stated that the black joker negated any triggers, plus the actual trigger itself says “when resolving” not “after damaging”.

No. The trigger is modifying the initial damage flip by + 1 damage. 

So in this case it is trying to modify the damage, ( just like critical strike would). And the number it's trying to modify is unmodifiable so it stays as 0. It had to be when resolving because it alters how you would resolve the damage flip. 

A trigger like ricochet does a new damage flip. That would still happen if you flipped a black joker. 

[Mycellanious]

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

No. The trigger is modifying the initial damage flip by + 1 damage. 

So in this case it is trying to modify the damage, ( just like critical strike would). And the number it's trying to modify is unmodifiable so it stays as 0. It had to be when resolving because it alters how you would resolve the damage flip. 

A trigger like ricochet does a new damage flip. That would still happen if you flipped a black joker. 

or something like Smoulder I believe, where the target suffers 1 damage from the Burning condition

[Hot4Perdita]

25 minutes ago, Adran said:

No. The trigger is modifying the initial damage flip by + 1 damage. 

So in this case it is trying to modify the damage, ( just like critical strike would). And the number it's trying to modify is unmodifiable so it stays as 0. It had to be when resolving because it alters how you would resolve the damage flip. 

A trigger like ricochet does a new damage flip. That would still happen if you flipped a black joker. 

Ok got it. So the +1 damage is negated due to unmodifiable black joker damage of 0. Thanks