Jump to content
NamelessOne

Tara's lacking summoning pool

Recommended Posts

Hello fellow Outcasts!

I want to start this thread to share my impressions about Tara and (hopefully if Wyrd pays a little atention ūüėú) get a little buff for her in the future. I've been playing a lot¬† with her lately, and although it's a very fun keyword with a lot of tricks, there is a couple of things that make her a bit lackluster, at least compared to other summoner masters.

The main problem is of course her very limited invocation pool. We can only summon 1 Void Hunter (with a 11:tome) or 2 Void Wretch (with a 12:tome). Void Hunters are ok but not really dangerous and most other summoners are more killy, having some kind of big ugly beater minion to summon with a 13, or at least more options for multi-summon. I think that making The Nothing Beast a minion or at least summonable while being an enforcer would be really helpful without being OP given that you can only have one at the time (mine always tends to die turn 2 or 3 at most). Other better option would be having new 9 ss minions to summon, and this could put Tara on pair with other summoners.

The second problem I have been experiencing with the crew is Aionus. He's a 10 ss henchman that most of the time I'm using just to unbury things and generate pass tokens. Maybe I'm not using him at it's fullest but I can't help but compare him to other (cheaper) henchmen and he always seems to be lacking: Mad Dog, Rusty Alice, The First Mate...

Thoughts?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NamelessOne said:

The main problem is of course her very limited invocation pool. We can only summon 1 Void Hunter (with a 11:tome) or 2 Void Wretch (with a 12:tome). Void Hunters are ok but not really dangerous and most other summoners are more killy, having some kind of big ugly beater minion to summon with a 13, or at least more options for multi-summon. I think that making The Nothing Beast a minion or at least summonable while being an enforcer would be really helpful without being OP given that you can only have one at the time (mine always tends to die turn 2 or 3 at most). Other better option would be having new 9 ss minions to summon, and this could put Tara on pair with other summoners.

The second problem I have been experiencing with the crew is Aionus. He's a 10 ss henchman that most of the time I'm using just to unbury things and generate pass tokens. Maybe I'm not using him at it's fullest but I can't help but compare him to other (cheaper) henchmen and he always seems to be lacking: Mad Dog, Rusty Alice, The First Mate...

I feel ya on the summoning pool.  We have to hit a high number (and usually SS for the suit) to get off the 2 void wretches to be summoned buried. (most other summons come onto the board near the summoner, where we have to wait for a fast condition to bring ours out or use an action of Aionus'. 

That said, as I wasn't apart of the Beta and refuse to run models that don't have officially released cards, I am waiting on my Faction book so I can start running the Void Hunters.  I think Aionus and the rest of her crew focus on damage and especially, on the mobility they have while doing damage.  The Wretches, Hunters, Scion, Tara, Talos, and maybe Aionus too all can hurt buried models from anywhere on the board.  So I think the built in bury tests on most of the crews models is to get the opposition into the void for some damage OR burn through the opposing player's control  hand.

Aionus is expensive.  No doubt about that.  He doesn't seem to earn his worth in straight up damage but the added control of your crew that he gives you helps him earn his worth most of the time.  There have been some games where I deploy, move once, with him, and then he stands there all game, supporting the rest of the board.

If we could summon a second Nothing Beast (AFTER THE FIRST DIED so never would there be two friendly NBs on the table at once), that would be insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, noob said:

If we could summon a second Nothing Beast (AFTER THE FIRST DIED so never would there be two friendly NBs on the table at once), that would be insane.

WYRD, please note that I do NOT want this.  Just noting that it would be insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The summoning pool most likely will be increased in future releases. So I don't won't the Nothing Beast to be summonable, I totally agree with @noob

During the beta, we had to fight a lot to put Aionus where he is now (he got buffering and the unbury someone getting pass tokens and +1Mv).

I actually don't like him, because is tax that you have to pay in order to make sure that your summons see the table.

He dies way too easy and lets be honest, his damage is ridiculous as well as his thread range. Burying is nothing like M2E, so you can't count on having someone buried that you want/can kill with Aionus. 

The Void Hunters are quite resilient and can put some damage, so don't underestimate them as beaters.

And even if we can't summon beaters, you can field the Nothing Beast and Talos (make sure you bring some movement trick for him), which hit like a truck. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

The summoning pool most likely will be increased in future releases. So I don't won't the Nothing Beast to be summonable, I totally agree with @noob

And even if we can't summon beaters, you can field the Nothing Beast and Talos (make sure you bring some movement trick for him), which hit like a truck. 

This ^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ShinChan said:

And even if we can't summon beaters, you can field the Nothing Beast and Talos (make sure you bring some movement trick for him), which hit like a truck. 

This argument does not make any sense... I'm talking about summoning pools, not hiring pools. Other masters can hire beaters as good or even better than ours, and also summon better minions.

6 hours ago, noob said:

If we could summon a second Nothing Beast (AFTER THE FIRST DIED so never would there be two friendly NBs on the table at once), that would be insane.

Really, re-summoning just 1 model worth 9 ss after it dies would be insane?? What about Dashel summoning multiple 9ss Executioners? Or Asami summoning multiple 9ss Jorogumos? Or Kirai re-summoning its 8ss Ikiryo each time she dies and also summoning a 8ss Goryo the same turn?

Before making any statements about what would be too overpowered, it would be nice to at least compare it with anything other masters can do, don't you think? 

  • Respectfully Disagree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

I mean summoning is just one part of Tara's kit. She's a toolbox master, not really a primary summoner. 

I agree. More summons would be cool, but I don't think she is lacking without them at the moment. I mostly have her run schemes and pick off weaker models on the flanks. It's super hard for opponents to keep her from successfully scheming. 

13 hours ago, noob said:

(most other summons come onto the board near the summoner, where we have to wait for a fast condition to bring ours out or use an action of Aionus'. 

Most of the other summons also have a downside from their upgrade or come in slow. I don't think that Tara is better than other masters at summoning because of this but it is a consideration. 

Aionus is a bit of a tax that the crew has to pay and it took a lot of complaining in the beta to get him brought up to his current state. That being said, the activation control you have between his pass token generation and Tara getting two activations is amazing. I find that he spends turn 1 unburying models and on turn 3 or 4 he can start getting into the fight by dealing damage equal to the turn number. 

16 hours ago, NamelessOne said:

Maybe I'm not using him at it's fullest but I can't help but compare him to other (cheaper) henchmen and he always seems to be lacking: Mad Dog, Rusty Alice, The First Mate...

I think Aionus brings something a lot different to the game than these henchmen. They are great though. I love using Mad Dog and Rusty, but I actually think First Mate is the strongest of these three surprisingly. 

In the end, I think they will come out with more summons in the future. It'll just take some time. 

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, NamelessOne said:

 

We can only summon 1 Void Hunter (with a 11:tome) or 2 Void Wretch (with a 12:tome). Void Hunters are ok but not really dangerous and most other summoners are more killy, having some kind of big ugly beater minion to summon with a 13, or at least more options for multi-summon. 

 

Just wondering, where can I find the rules for Void Hunters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, NamelessOne said:

This argument does not make any sense... I'm talking about summoning pools, not hiring pools. Other masters can hire beaters as good or even better than ours, and also summon better minions.

Really, re-summoning just 1 model worth 9 ss after it dies would be insane?? What about Dashel summoning multiple 9ss Executioners? Or Asami summoning multiple 9ss Jorogumos? Or Kirai re-summoning its 8ss Ikiryo each time she dies and also summoning a 8ss Goryo the same turn?

Before making any statements about what would be too overpowered, it would be nice to at least compare it with anything other masters can do, don't you think? 

When I've used Tara, I haven't had too many problems with her toolkit. I like the void hunters as a summon, and I have made good use of Aionius. A lot of that was in the Beta testing, so some of the things I tried are no longer possible.

You may complain Tara has a worse summoning pool than about 10 masters, but that means she has a better summoning pool that about 40 masters. She also has more AP than any other master with a built in out-activation advantage.Tara also has one of the least restrictive summon upgrades out there. I can't think of any other Summoning master that can as easily guarantee the model will come into play on the turn it is summoned with no downsides.

I'm not sure that you gave any evidence why she needs a buff except for the fact she only has 2 summonable minions at the moment.  I would not be surprised if there was a void minion in future releases if Wyrd want to increase her pool, but I don't think its essential. Void hunters are a pretty solid summon from the times I used them. They are good at gumming up the works.

 

1 hour ago, Cadaver_Junkie said:

Just wondering, where can I find the rules for Void Hunters?

At the moment you can't find their rules. Once the model or the Outcast Faction book is released we will get the rules and they will be available on the wyrd site and in WGV (although you may have to allow a couple of weeks or so after release before its all updated).

Plenty of people out there have the last beta files which had stats for them. These may or may not be the final stats.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually very happy with how the crew plays. Tara is one of my favourite masters to put on the table and I can't really say that I have felt any concerns with regards to her summoning options. Usually I summon for a specific purpose - either scheming or running interference or to go rescue-bury someone else.

Usually when there's a larger summon pool I would still gravitate to only 1 or 2 options from that pool, larger isn't always better. and her void critters are already actually pretty good imho.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, NamelessOne said:

Really, re-summoning just 1 model worth 9 ss after it dies would be insane?? What about Dashel summoning multiple 9ss Executioners? Or Asami summoning multiple 9ss Jorogumos? Or Kirai re-summoning its 8ss Ikiryo each time she dies and also summoning a 8ss Goryo the same turn?

Before making any statements about what would be too overpowered, it would be nice to at least compare it with anything other masters can do, don't you think? 

Ikiryo IS good and that ability of Karai's is SUPER awesome BUT, Kirai can easily be tagged as a focused summoner.  Tara is more of a hybrid summoner.  With 5 actions minimum a round (6 if you're playing her crew right) she can be a solid beat stick or scheme runner on top of getting a summon off once a turn.  That's good.  If she then could bring back the NB, which is arguably the strongest and toughest beater in the Obliteration keyword, I think it would be insane.  I would just catapult it forward, let it kill half/cripple the opposing crew and then do it again 2 turns later, if they killed it.

So yes, IMHO, being able to bring the NB back would be insane.

NOTE: Wyrd, I do NOT want the ability to bring back the NB in future renditions of the Obliteration keyword.  :) Thank you.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...