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4 hours ago, zavros said:

Looking at the Fate mods section on pg 9, here's what the example says:

For example, a player with a ++ might reveal a 4,7, and 10. The player may choose any of these cards to use, and will probably choose the 10 for the flip.

To me, it sounds like a single card is chosen as the "flip" and the rest are revealed cards. 2 paragraphs above that example, "The card that may be used for the flip is determined by the type of Modifier." Meaning that + or - restricts what you can choose to be the flip.

From lynch's card:

After an enemy model flips an Ace, it gains a Brilliance Token.

To me, that means that it has to be an ace chosen as the "flip" and placed into the conflict before cheating; then the ability will trigger.

 

The section on Flips says "Sometimes, an effect will instruct a player to “reflip” one or more cards. When this occurs, the player discards the originally flipped card(s) and flips a new card from their Fate Deck." Which is telling you that you do flip multiple cards. Also from the Fate Modifiers section "You may never reveal more than four cards as the result of Fate Modifiers. Any additional cards that would result from Fate Modifiers are not flipped."

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when you look at the discard section, they say this:   Cards discarded after Flipping, Cheating Fate, or from the Conflict are not considered discarded by the player or any specific mode

In my mind they are more about getting your own models in place to spend their ap interacting or attacking, while also creating bubbles where your enemy can't interact for the low cost of a brilliance

My basic Lynch roster is: Lynch with trained ninja Huggy with Silent Protector (if enemy has too much shooting) Gwen Kitty Tannen with Trained Ninja (if enemy has too much sho

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8 hours ago, zavros said:

Thank you for clearing that up. I had been told it worked the other way. 

In 2e there was an action that worked similarly with the Lucky Effigy that healed 1 for every ram a model flips. Strictly speaking the RAW for 2e was that Flip only every referred to the card chosen in the conflict but it was never FAQed(and was out of cycle with the errata) because it was pretty obviously intended to be every card that gets physically flipped from the deck. So that's probably why you're being told it works the other way, and admittedly with this is could definitely be clearer.

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22 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

The section on Flips says "Sometimes, an effect will instruct a player to “reflip” one or more cards. When this occurs, the player discards the originally flipped card(s) and flips a new card from their Fate Deck." Which is telling you that you do flip multiple cards. Also from the Fate Modifiers section "You may never reveal more than four cards as the result of Fate Modifiers. Any additional cards that would result from Fate Modifiers are not flipped."

Just for the record, each instance of “flip” that you’re referencing should have been errata’d to “reveal” (or “revealed” or whatever) when they were fixing the “flip” ambiguities.

And I am including Lynch’s ability in that list of places where “flip” should have been changed to “reveal”.

Because if you compare the wording between M2E and M3E, all of the business concerning revealing cards during the flip was introduced so that the rules wouldn’t be referring to “flip” meaning two or three different things.

🤨

 

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Who do you find you are using for scheming if its not kitty? 

I suppose the huggy obey can be handy. Also with the new corrupted rules huggy is potentially good as whether he obeys a friendly or does it himself he has the potential to heal it back. 

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5 hours ago, Kiryn said:

Who do you find you are using for scheming if its not kitty? 

I suppose the huggy obey can be handy. Also with the new corrupted rules huggy is potentially good as whether he obeys a friendly or does it himself he has the potential to heal it back. 

Kitty is an excellent schemers but I do not take Honeypot on pool where there's a lot of movement involved to score! If I can bubble and control areas to score, Honeypot is excellent! If you have to move a lot and go inside opponent DZ, I choose another keyword!

Inside Honeypot there's no good schemers (apart from Kitty) but there's some good OOK schemers in TT. For example, Hucksters are excellent! If you are against a keyword that drops scrap markers, Minako is a very good models and she will summon our best schemers, the Katashiro!!

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Can we keep the Lynch discussion going? I feel like his theme could use a decent scheme runner. I've just started playing him and the lack of schemers struck me like a fist to the face. I'm one of those players who picks a master and sticks with them for every game for six months or so. 

My first game yesterday was Turf war with killy schemes which worked well. I ended up having to teleport Hugster in to flip turf markers which seems pretty neat even if I'm not used to thinking about him as a scheme runner. I'm not at all looking forward to the new GG strats though, two beckoners will only get you so far and the rest of the keyword is far too slow and expensive to scheme. If you could bring three or four beckoners I could see them working as okay-ish runners in an interact heavy pool but right now it's looking pretty grim.

Any advice on scheme running? Are we stuck with beckoners and tanuki? Huggy can obey an enemy to attack a Tanuki and it will count as an enemy attacking for their scheme trigger, right? Maybe hire Desper from the wastrel keyword? Maybe a tengu or katashiro would be worth the tax? 

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Tengu are a good (and very fragile) option.  For my part, I have only recently used 1 or 2 bunraku (6 + 1 ss) with some success.  I need more tests but they have good mobility and defend themselves well to be schemers.

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For me Huggy is nice flank schemer/scheme killer, Kitty works well thanks to her Mv6 with incorporeal and with some preparation free 5" push (on your heels with activated mask trigger also can work wonders - with one action you move her 14"+enemy base - wonderful for quick take prisoner), Gwyneth may shoot Depleted with low tome or enemy with high enough tome to drop scheme marker b2b with her target. Sun Quiang via his zero action - study replaces scrap or corpse marker into scheme and he has also don't mind me (also his reposition trigger may help in some schemes).

Remember that you can hire Hucksters for 7ss after tax, with right table with enough blocking terrain they can spam scheme markers (don't ask me where to find ss for them i have spare ss out of Honeypot keyword only for Sun Quiang). Desper from my perspective needs +2ss for stealth, otherwise he is very nice shooting target for enemy (tested against Perdita) - 11 SS from my perspective isn't worth.

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Those are some great tips guys! I hadn't noticed Gwyneth's scheming potential, seems like a decent way to turn depleted into the scheme runners I wish they were. 

I'm working on TTB-kit conversions for his two henchwomen since I bought my crew a long time ago. I'll try proxies to get a feel for the out of keyword stuff and see what I like. I feel constantly short of ss in the new edition, not getting a free cache takes some adjusting to.

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  • 1 month later...

Four games in and having a blast with the Honeypot keyword !

95% of my played games have been Neverborn masters.  I've enjoyed playing a fast glass-cannon crew with Jakob Lynch as everything is infuriating to kill or pin down.

Three distinct things I've been enjoying most:

1. Activating Kitty, rig the deck with a trash minimum card (1-3) with an 11 under it, move move and drop a scheme marker with her bonus action in a good place to score Research Mission.  Especially if you know they're about to swing on her, you cheat up when you flip that trash card in defense in order to hope for a miss but depending what happens you've got a severe coming up next for ss damage reduction +1 for incorporeal... that is, if you don't use it for a charge on your next model's activation.  Playing Lynch I constantly find myself giving my crew win-win decisions while forcing your opponent to make choices with hidden knowledge.

2. Wanyudo and Obsidian Statue, where Wanyudo damages and tarpits something, or deletes a scheme runner, then runs off to do other things while the models that had burning and are hopefully dying continue to up their burning condition from the Obsidian Statue's 'Intense Heat' global start phase ability (enemy only).  In a pool that doubles up on schemes like Claim Jump and Leave Your Mark, if you run your Obsidian Statue for the centerpoint he's going to be an enormous Armor +2 tarpit with a 6" hazardous burning +1 aura.  The beauty of this is that you didn't take claim jump OR leave your mark!  Your Obsidian Statue soaks up the AP and denies their VP with Laugh Off while Kitty and Wanyudo and other fast things score points by flying through models for fun and profit on the other side of the board.  So many Honeypotters are slow Mv, so they're great to keep an eye on the middle from a distance.

3. Huggy's Mv 6, Incorporeal, 2" engagement range and terrifying 11

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  • 4 weeks later...

New Lynch is pure awesomeness!

Kitty is just Kitty.

Huggy is better than alt.

Illuminated have much better proportions for the mutated parts and without crazyness like floating illuminated that is devoured by something (probably Huggy) and you don't know how to glue him into his base without any tricks, but they have much more boring sculpts. I miss the crouching one and different emanations of brilliance like jaws, legs, etc. The female one is much better than older sculpt but i miss the tongue.

Also i'm starting missing mechanics for Honeypot minions picturing their addiction to Brilliance - more ways to spend brilliance from themselfs for all kind of little buffs/nerfs, but if you don't have any on that model he/she die or became depleted with that many health as model that became one. In some way something reverse to Grow mechanics from Nekima. That would be fun, even if this is probably not the right time after beta to tell about it and he not the fastest and friendlest for new players master to play (against) him with all his auras which i love and that mechanics would slow him down "a little".

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I like the new Lynch. I dislike the new Hungering Darkness.

Kitty has nothing original so I am neutral.

I much preferred the older Illuminated that were more dynamic and outstanding.

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1 hour ago, Regelridderen said:

It looks like, they’ve completely given up on dynamic postures in M3E. Everyone is just posing for a camera, rather than being a split-second from chopping People’s head off. 

 

The old Lynch poses weren't exactly dynamic either.

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20 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

It looks like, they’ve completely given up on dynamic postures in M3E. Everyone is just posing for a camera, rather than being a split-second from chopping People’s head off. 

 

I agree with you! the worst model for this in my opinion is Agent 46! He's so boring and straight! I also very dislike the long legs xD

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