Cronex13 Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sweet Tooth said: Think of the possibilities.. when 46 Obeys someone they can’t cheat to stop it 😈 That's... Something I hadn't considered. Wow. Talk about dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Tooth Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, Cronex13 said: That's... Something I hadn't considered. Wow. Talk about dirty. Let’s take it a step further... check this discussion out. So 46 can copy The Jury’s suited Obey and not need to stone. Not always the best option (paying 8+1 stones for Jury vs stoning for a mask) but could be really fun. And don’t forget Doppel could do it at a stat 7! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 Um. Maybe I misread but it sounds like that thread is saying that the built in suit ISNT part of the stat? The rulebook wording doesn't seem to lean that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Tooth Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cronex13 said: Um. Maybe I misread but it sounds like that thread is saying that the built in suit ISNT part of the stat? The rulebook wording doesn't seem to lean that way? The stat is just the numerical portion, yes, but that thread calls out that any or from the original action would be copied over as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Okay, I can dig it! Not sure I'd take the jury in a Lucius crew when we've got lawyers but I can see that being something to abuse in a Justice crew, as Agent 46 can keep up w Justice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameSoHard Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 7 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said: The stat is just the numerical portion, yes, but that thread calls out that any or from the original action would be copied over as well. Holy.... seems unintuitive but maybe technically correct. Jury with inbuilt mask is legit, witchling thrall with inbuilt rams for that 3/5/7 damage are the first two that come to mind for A46’s uncheatable goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 When you duplicate a power with mimicry you get everything from the attack, any inbuilt suits/positives and triggers. This can be interesting if you copy the opponents attack, had agent 46 thoon's melee attack then then bury him with the same.melee.attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed25 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I've read the 2 post about it and I'm not sure I agree with stats being only the number! I'll show you why! Most people in the other threads said it was only the numerical number because of this paragraphe in page 22: ''Any Action that requires a duel will have a stat. This is what the model adds to the card it flips in the duel (in this case, 5). It may also have a Fate Modifier, which impacts the flip for that Action, and/or a suit, which is added to the model's final duel total.'' The stat 5 they are referring is for an action shown higher in the page, the action is eldritch blast with a stat 5 with a and a . Most people in the other thread said since they separated the 5 form the rest, the stats only represented the numerical value and they said the ''It'' after that refers to the action and not the stats but if we replace ''It'' by action this sounds a bit strange to me: ''Any Action that requires a duel will have a stat. This is what the model adds to the card it flips in the duel (in this case, 5). ''THE ACTION'' may also have a Fate Modifier, which impacts the flip for that Action, ....'' I'm not perfect in english but I think it feels better it the ''It'' is instead the stat. ''Any Action that requires a duel will have a stat. This is what the model adds to the card it flips in the duel (in this case, 5). ''THE STAT'' may also have a Fate Modifier, which impacts the flip for that Action, ....'' If the ''It'' was in fact for the action, I think they would have written it like this: ''Any Action that requires a duel will have a stat. This is what the model adds to the card it flips in the duel (in this case, 5). 'THE ACTION'' may also have a Fate Modifier, which impacts the flip for ''IT'', ....'' So for me until they FAQ it, I'll play it as the stat is everything under the stat section of any actions, not just the number because I found this counter-intuitive and I don't think it's RAI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 You probably shouldn't go analyzing the rules based on the language used if your English isn't perfect. Anywho, you might have a point if that was the only paragraph in the rules saying that the suit is not part of the stat, but there are also others in the Duels part of the rules: Quote Players add their stat, the value of the flipped card, and any suits to determine their current duel total. Notice the multiple suits. The current duel total being referred to is the one before cheating, and the only way to have multiple suits at that point is to have one associated with a card and another one associated with the stat, because suits from soulstones only get added to the final duel total. Not that I really think the writers of these rules have really paid that close an attention, but if we assume that they indeed have, then the only logical conclusion is that the suit is separate from the stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Myyrä said: Not that I really think the writers of these rules have really paid that close an attention, but if we assume that they indeed have, then the only logical conclusion is that the suit is separate from the stat. Even if they didn't... This is basically only relevant for two models in one keyword in the whole game – a keyword that hardly has a reputation for being 'broken' or even that powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Myyrä said: You probably shouldn't go analyzing the rules based on the language used if your English isn't perfect. Anywho, you might have a point if that was the only paragraph in the rules saying that the suit is not part of the stat, but there are also others in the Duels part of the rules: Notice the multiple suits. The current duel total being referred to is the one before cheating, and the only way to have multiple suits at that point is to have one associated with a card and another one associated with the stat, because suits from soulstones only get added to the final duel total. Not that I really think the writers of these rules have really paid that close an attention, but if we assume that they indeed have, then the only logical conclusion is that the suit is separate from the stat. If you look at a card as per the picture you will see that the number and the positive and suit all come under the stat column of the attack. Therefore number positive and which are inbuilt are part of the stat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Regelridderen said: Even if they didn't... This is basically only relevant for two models in one keyword in the whole game – a keyword that hardly has a reputation for being 'broken' or even that powerful. And the Malifaux child, Wendigo, Lazarus and argueably Cassandra andHannah that I've found so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Adran said: And the Malifaux child, Wendigo, Lazarus and argueably Cassandra andHannah that I've found so far Yeah? But they don't count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Starrius said: If you look at a card as per the picture you will see that the number and the positive and suit all come under the stat column of the attack. Therefore number positive and which are inbuilt are part of the stat And if you read the rulebook, it tells us that that the Stat column of an action can contain 3 things, The stat, fate modifiers and suits, so distinguishing between the number (which it calls the stat), the suit and the fate modifier. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Till I read otherwise me and the people I play with will add suits, it is FAQ'd it doesnt worry me either way most things I used dont have the added suits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, Starrius said: Till I read otherwise me and the people I play with will add suits, it is FAQ'd it doesnt worry me either way most things I used dont have the added suits Now you are just contradicting yourself. Are you replacing the entire stat column with 6 when mimicking something with Agent 46 or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I said it's a possibility I didnt use it someone else started coming up with using jury obey with it. I use it to copy other things on the opponents side most of the time. Or I use it for the investigators.power since it ups his minimum damage to 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Okay sounds like there is still some debate here, but the ability states that "the stat of that action is considered to be the stat of this action" (the mimic) and since the mimic cast doesn't have any built in suits or positives, you wouldn't keep suits or positives from thw ability he copies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Starrius said: When you duplicate a power with mimicry you get everything from the attack, any inbuilt suits/positives and triggers. This can be interesting if you copy the opponents attack, had agent 46 thoon's melee attack then then bury him with the same.melee.attack False. You only get the built in triggers. You replace the stat with the stat of Mimic, which in a46 case is 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I do disagree but if it gets ruled that way I can see it. It's a very niche ability anyway. You get to use any of the triggers of the attack you copy so even without the suit it would still be very useful especially since 46 is a henchman and can stone for the suit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Definitely useful and your idea of combining it wirh inhuman physiology is pretty darn genius. I'm confused as to where the disagreement is though. It's important we hash it out so that when an opponent comes with same argument, we stand prepared. As per the wording of the ability, the model treats the selected action (and it's triggers) As though it were printed on its card. The stat for the action is considered to be the stat for this action. We have determines that stat includes flip modifyers and built in suits, of which the mimic ability has neither... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I disagree about it not getting inbuilt suits and possitives because while they are all names different part I believe they all come under the "stat" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're agreeing that suit and positives are part of stat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starrius Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, Cronex13 said: Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're agreeing that suit and positives are part of stat? Yes I believe they are part of the stat when you copy an ability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronex13 Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 If we were to leave behind the mimic ability and just define stat itself, it would include positive and suits right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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