Through the breach and M3E

[Le gob]

Some changes made in M3E are interesting and in my opinion would benefite to translate inte the RPG.

To name a few: charges in 1 action, and the new conditions instead of the old ones.

 

Is there an update scheduled to get the RPG more in line with the new M3E rules?

I'm aware this would need to make changes in a lot of character classes, so maybe a new edition?

[LeperColony]

The problem with a new edition is TTB2E just isn't very old.  In fact, it hasn't even replaced the 1E supplements like Into the Steam, Under Quarantine etc (though perhaps there never was any such intention).

While it isn't necessarily essential that TTB follow Malifaux rules, I generally do think it's a good idea overall and would have liked to see the Conditions especially sharing unified rules.  Now, for my own games, since I don't use the horrible single-flip fixed TN system, my game is already closer to Malifaux.

[SaveVersus]

I'm not familiar with the Malifaux rules. What TN system do you use?

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, SaveVersus said:

I'm not familiar with the Malifaux rules. What TN system do you use?

In ordinary TtB if you want to do something like hit someone or lie to them or find them while they hide, the Fated flip a card against a set static TN.  And of course, it works the other way too (if you want to see if the fated are hit or found, the fated again flip against a fixed TN).

Instead, in an opposed situation, in my games the fated flip and add their AV, and then I flip for the NPC and add their AV.

It's essentially the same system as Malifaux, and it was a rule an optional rule in the 1st edition Fatemaster's Almanac.

[SaveVersus]

I get it. Do you do that for every situation, like even when an NPC isn't involved? For example, I want to shoot the rope of someone being hanged? 

Also, with NPCs, do you pull first so the PC can decide if they want to cheat fate or not, or do you just let them know the opponent's AV and they have to make the decision based on that?

[LeperColony]

7 minutes ago, SaveVersus said:

I get it. Do you do that for every situation, like even when an NPC isn't involved? For example, I want to shoot the rope of someone being hanged? 

Also, with NPCs, do you pull first so the PC can decide if they want to cheat fate or not, or do you just let them know the opponent's AV and they have to make the decision based on that?

1)  No, if a flip is not opposed then I just use a fixed TN.  

2)  There are a few ways to do it.  I do it like Malifaux, where both players flip more or less simultaneously (or to be more precise, the order doesn't matter).  Then you have announced totals and the loser has the option to cheat, then whether or not the loser cheats, the winner has the option to cheat.

[solkan]

For what it's worth, I don't think it was a design goal for either the TTB or Malifaux teams to keep the TTB and Malifaux rules as similar as possible.  Mainly because the two games have different priorities.  Among other things, M3E reorganized and consolidated various abilities and actions because when you've got 500-some different models, spurious differences are annoying.  But when you're detailing things in a beastiary, you're more likely to treat those minor differences as "characterful".  

For instance, I don't think you're ever going to see a TTB rule mention the word "Upgrade", especially for attaching or removing them from characters.  And 2nd edition's armor rules pretty deliberately don't work the same as Malifaux does, because of what happens as Armor +X increases.

So I don't think you're going to see TTB incorporate M3E changes unless those changes are demonstrated to be improvements for the role playing game.  

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

For what it's worth, I don't think it was a design goal for either the TTB or Malifaux teams to keep the TTB and Malifaux rules as similar as possible.  Mainly because the two games have different priorities.  Among other things, M3E reorganized and consolidated various abilities and actions because when you've got 500-some different models, spurious differences are annoying.  But when you're detailing things in a beastiary, you're more likely to treat those minor differences as "characterful".  

For instance, I don't think you're ever going to see a TTB rule mention the word "Upgrade", especially for attaching or removing them from characters.  And 2nd edition's armor rules pretty deliberately don't work the same as Malifaux does, because of what happens as Armor +X increases.

So I don't think you're going to see TTB incorporate M3E changes unless those changes are demonstrated to be improvements for the role playing game.  

It think it’s possible that some changes will be quietly implemented in the future, but yeah, there is definitely going to be differences between a war game concerned with relative balance and an unbalanced (for good reason) roleplaying game. 

[LeperColony]

10 hours ago, solkan said:

For what it's worth, I don't think it was a design goal for either the TTB or Malifaux teams to keep the TTB and Malifaux rules as similar as possible.  Mainly because the two games have different priorities.  Among other things, M3E reorganized and consolidated various abilities and actions because when you've got 500-some different models, spurious differences are annoying.  But when you're detailing things in a beastiary, you're more likely to treat those minor differences as "characterful".  

For instance, I don't think you're ever going to see a TTB rule mention the word "Upgrade", especially for attaching or removing them from characters.  And 2nd edition's armor rules pretty deliberately don't work the same as Malifaux does, because of what happens as Armor +X increases.

So I don't think you're going to see TTB incorporate M3E changes unless those changes are demonstrated to be improvements for the role playing game.  

I agree there are different concerns between an RPG and a miniature game, but I'm not convinced that the differences are necessarily intentional.  TTB had Malifaux as a starting point, but I suspect their systems develop more-or-less independently.  Divergences that crop up are likely a result of their separate progression, rather than a clear "this is how it works in a skirmish game, here's how we'd want it in an RPG."

I'm in favor of harmonized rules, insofar as it can meet TTB's goals, because it makes it simpler for people who play both, and it might help pull people from one to the other a bit more.  Not that I think anyone has ever said they won't try TTB (or M3E) because they have some differences, but anything that makes it easier to play the games is good, imo.