Wong crew beating

[Kiryn]

So I'm new to the bayou and have decided initially to play wong. 

Like his theme and think there is an OK synergy however I'm worried he is going to lack bite. 

I don't really want to proxy alfonse but im struggling to see where the obvious damage is coming from if you don't take him. 

Thinking about taking gracie for some tank /beat and Burt. Will also take the pigapult for tossing Burt, piglets and bokor about. 

Is it a case of having a lot of fast models with glowy getting multiple average hits off.? 

Are swine cursed the missing link? 

[Rathnard]

I've played a couple of games with Wong now (literally: 2  ), and while I'm nowhere near being an expert, I've started to get an idea of how he works. 

Wong's crew definitely has bite... it's just not immediately obvious. For instance Wong himself is mostly going to be dealing damage through his shockwaves. Dealing 2 damage at a time (if they fail the Mv duel) might not seem like much. But because it's coming from two shockwave markers, he's often hitting 3-4 models with each attack. What's more, anyone who passes that duel gains a glowy token, which itself increases the damage they take by +1 per token next time they fail the duel. This effectively means that Wong is always "damaging" every model affected by his Fzzzap attack. It's just a matter of whether they're taking the damage immediately, or further down the track!

It's also worth remembering that Wong's crew is great at getting around most defensive tricks that enemy crews might have. Wong's shockwaves don't target a model, conveniently getting around Terrifying or Manipulative, for instance. Lightning Bugs can do the same with their Blast damage and alot of the crew have the Full Power Trigger to prevent damage reduction, all of which they can easily get by spending a Glowy Token to gain the requisite suit. 

I've not tried the Pigapult, but Burt seems decent and Gracie is definitely a great choice. She deals some good damage, but the main benefit is her great resiliance and "Ride with me" action to ferry other models around.

Swine Cursed are awesome. They have push effects to move your models around and the potential is there to hit pretty hard thanks to their triggers. They can also take a few hits, with Glowy Tokens acting as ablative wounds if you want. But once the tokens are gone they're not especially tough.

The Taxidermist is another option. They're pretty cheap when you consider their free stuffed piglet, and the Critical Strike on their melee attack gives them the potential to deal some serious damage (remember the free suit from a Glowy Token!). 

[wizuriel]

First turn Wong drops glowy and attacks crew once giving everyone glowy 2, fast and card from Sammy

 

As a base I would look at

Wong

Olivia

Sammy

2x swine cursed / 3x lightning bugs

Bokor

 

Yeah swine cursed can hit hard and with glowy do irreducible damage, but for 2 points less lightning bugs do good damage and can do it at range

Bokor can heal the damage and if needed use a glowy for the aoe heal

Gracie is very versatile with armor, healing on Rams (works nice since most of this crew wants times), can speed you up

Mechanized pork chop also works. Not as versatile as Gracie, but can let your charges do more damage

I wouldn't recomment the pigapult. Unless you design a crew around it I find it very meh and easy to counter. Wong's crew is fast enough you don't need the placement

[Rathnard]

I'm actually thinking about alternative healing options for Wong's crew. I'll admit I've not tried Bokor (don't have the model yet!), but like the Lightning Bug I feel like the high TN makes their healing less reliable than I'd like. Especially for a crew that's regularly damaging itself. Thus I think there's potential for taking an out of keyword model, like the Slop Hauler or Spit Hog?

The Slop Hauler should pair pretty well with the Swinecursed. Having a Hauler trail behind a pair of Swinecursed can help them stay alive (they're not pigs, but it's a 3" pulse and the TN is low) and boost their damage output with Adversary (Beast) from his attacks. He can also summon the odd piglet, which can't be a bad thing. 

The Spit Hog is expensive at 6+1SS, but it's better at healing and the Lure action has some potential.

Thoughts?

---

Also while I'm at it, I feel like Wong almost needs to take the Gremlin Ghille Suit upgrade. Unless I'm mistaken, At Sz 1 he can't see the ground over low walls and the like, which makes placing his shockwave markers very difficult on tables with alot of Sz 1 terrain. Boosting him up to Sz 2 therefore seems pretty necessary in alot of games. 

[ShinChan]

Without Alphonse you're lacking offensive power. 

The shockwavea are fine, but shielded, armor and all the healing in this edition is going to give you a hard time if you want to go for kills. And the enemy will split their models and 95%  of the time you're getting 1-2 affected.

Taxidermist are quite expensive for how fragile they are. The can work with the upgrade that gives them bully, so they get an extra suit against anyone that costs 7 or less, but they still die too easily for 10ss model.

Burt and Gracie are a decent choice, but care with Burt, he dies quite fast. And he's a better scheme runner than a killing machine. 

The crew got a bit screwed up in the end with the changes to injured/distracted. So it delivers a decent amount of injuried, but you won't be using it that much. 

Nobody except Wong interacts with glowy tokens in the enemy models. 

There's only one Crackling Energies (Burt lost it from M2E) and due to the scenery, it's usually not that effective (should be a place, not a push).

Try to use Wong to force the enemy to use the cards in his hand, and hope for bad flips.

Mechanized Porkchop can help you against ranged crews, has a decend melee attack and can spread some glowy love while giving positive flips. 

[wizuriel]

3 hours ago, Rathnard said:

I'm actually thinking about alternative healing options for Wong's crew. I'll admit I've not tried Bokor (don't have the model yet!), but like the Lightning Bug I feel like the high TN makes their healing less reliable than I'd like. Especially for a crew that's regularly damaging itself. Thus I think there's potential for taking an out of keyword model, like the Slop Hauler or Spit Hog?

The Slop Hauler should pair pretty well with the Swinecursed. Having a Hauler trail behind a pair of Swinecursed can help them stay alive (they're not pigs, but it's a 3" pulse and the TN is low) and boost their damage output with Adversary (Beast) from his attacks. He can also summon the odd piglet, which can't be a bad thing. 

The Spit Hog is expensive at 6+1SS, but it's better at healing and the Lure action has some potential.

Thoughts?

 

The Bokor heals on 7+ which is still kind of high, but I find they bring a lot to the table. Their  to pulse shielded can be useful. If the enemy uses a pass they get a focus (can help with obey) and with glowy they only need a 9+ to obey which is pretty amazing for a minion. 

Slop haulers can hitch a ride with Swine-Cursed, but I feel without that they will be too slow to really use their heal or keep up

Spit Hog can't AOE heal and unless you attack your own models for the 1/2/3 heal I find they die very easily if you use the  to heal 2/3/4.  I don't think many Wizz-bang models really give up much not using their  and to use the heal instead. I feel Bokor brings more to a wizz-bang crew though then a spit hog will

[Kiryn]

I have looked at the taxidermist, but they do seem expensive both in terms of ss and also literally money. Really annoying it's the only way to get stuffed pigs. 

 

Will look at getting some swine cursed. 

Do you think Sammy is a must? I see her in a scheme heavy pool but not sure otherwise. 

Am planning on taking BBB, but it's probably him or Sammy. 

[ShinChan]

19 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

I have looked at the taxidermist, but they do seem expensive both in terms of ss and also literally money. Really annoying it's the only way to get stuffed pigs. 

 

Will look at getting some swine cursed. 

Do you think Sammy is a must? I see her in a scheme heavy pool but not sure otherwise. 

Am planning on taking BBB, but it's probably him or Sammy. 

For the price, I would go with Samy. Pure utility for 7 stones. If you play in bubble mode add a porkchop to the equation and it will give you a lot of card draw.

But she's not a must, it really depends on what you're getting and who are you facing + schemes.

Wizz-Bang is an amazing crew for most of the schemes and strategies that imply scheme markers. Not so good at killing and that die quite easily (Corrupted Idols is a challenge). 

[Jubby]

I had this problem today, after my 2 swine cursed died i had problem with doing significant dmg, and played agains poison healing undeads.

My team:

Wong + totem

Samy

2x swine + 12 cups of coffe

1x boqur

1x big brain brin

1x lightning bug

 

12 cups of coffe is op

[ShinChan]

I'm facing Sandeep next week, any advices? Arcanist is a faction where I don't have much experience.

Sorry for kidnapping the thread, but we're still talking about Wong

[Math Mathonwy]

I have come to the decision that I'm not a huge fan of Wong's playstyle. Which is a shame as he was one of my favourite Masters in 2nd edition and I still love his theme and the look of his crew.

But my problem is all the "playing with themselves" that they have to do. Juggling Glowy Tokens, damaging your own dudes, then healing them back up, hitting all the Triggers, Shieldeds, Pushes, Pulses, card draw - there's a massive amount of stuff that they are doing without any interaction with the opponent. I have always disliked these sorts of mechanics (killing your own dudes for Corpses in 1st edition was such a chore!). And these are quite exact stuff - maintaining LoS and distance for all the Pulses, deciding between cheating the correct suit vs using a Glowy Token, whether you really need that heal when it fails or you flip a weak and so on and so forth.

I have always like the "macro" level tactics more than the "micro" and this is kinda the ultimate of "micro". And I tend to get annoyed when I play this sort of stuff non-optimally.

But I haven't played him all that much, yet. So I guess my question is: do you find it all a bit much? Do you get used to it? Do you somehow minimize it?

[Kiryn]

I agree, I have only played him a couple of times but found the same thing. You need to go early with wong turn 1 to get everyone with glowy and fast and then he basically gets left behind when a fast crew moves up. To be fair it was flank so had to push up quick, if it had been standard this could have happened end of turn 1 maybe. 

Also you need to stay balled up initially to get the heal pulses out with the bokor. 

 

Maybe I was focusing on it all too much and actually you just need a key model or two with glowy and fast. 

[Math Mathonwy]

34 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

I agree, I have only played him a couple of times but found the same thing. You need to go early with wong turn 1 to get everyone with glowy and fast and then he basically gets left behind when a fast crew moves up. To be fair it was flank so had to push up quick, if it had been standard this could have happened end of turn 1 maybe. 

Also you need to stay balled up initially to get the heal pulses out with the bokor. 

 

Maybe I was focusing on it all too much and actually you just need a key model or two with glowy and fast. 

I've been using Olivia to hit a Lightning Bug for Fast and Glowy and then that Bug blasts the rest of the crew for Glowy and Fast with his Rams trigger (it's OK if it isn't quite everyone). Then have a Bokor heal the group and use Swine-Cursed to Push Wong up. And then activate Wong last to give everyone Fast for next turn - since stuff isn't quite as clumped at this point he might be forced to use two Shockwave Markers for this but OTOH he can usually hit enemies with them already as well. His 6" Pulse is large enough to still fit in most.

...but that's an amazing amount of busy-works and precise positioning.

[Mxbedlam]

I really wish that we had some sort of access to Staggered, it would make this crew sing so much more and turn stuffed and wong into a bigger threat.

[ShinChan]

6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I have come to the decision that I'm not a huge fan of Wong's playstyle. Which is a shame as he was one of my favourite Masters in 2nd edition and I still love his theme and the look of his crew.

But my problem is all the "playing with themselves" that they have to do. Juggling Glowy Tokens, damaging your own dudes, then healing them back up, hitting all the Triggers, Shieldeds, Pushes, Pulses, card draw - there's a massive amount of stuff that they are doing without any interaction with the opponent. I have always disliked these sorts of mechanics (killing your own dudes for Corpses in 1st edition was such a chore!). And these are quite exact stuff - maintaining LoS and distance for all the Pulses, deciding between cheating the correct suit vs using a Glowy Token, whether you really need that heal when it fails or you flip a weak and so on and so forth.

I have always like the "macro" level tactics more than the "micro" and this is kinda the ultimate of "micro". And I tend to get annoyed when I play this sort of stuff non-optimally.

But I haven't played him all that much, yet. So I guess my question is: do you find it all a bit much? Do you get used to it? Do you somehow minimize it?

I agree with some points here, my first turn is always the same:

1. Olivia drop a scheme marker, gives glowy to my big model.
2.  Big guy in the middle of the group (Sz 3) that is the origin point of Fzzzzzap! twice. Launch into the Space the scheme marker.
3. Bokor heals twice the big guy with the trigger in aura.
4. Do stuff and try to end in similar position for next time.

I've played a tournament last Sunday, 3 games with Wong. I'll try to post my impressions (once again). I won 2 games and the other one ended in a draw.

 

[CustardBomb]

21 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I've been using Olivia to hit a Lightning Bug for Fast and Glowy and then that Bug blasts the rest of the crew for Glowy and Fast with his Rams trigger (it's OK if it isn't quite everyone).

Does the rams trigger still generate a blast when targeting a feiendly model? 

Pg 30 of the rule book 'Attack actikns which target friendly models do not generate blasts'

Or does it get aroubd this since its a trigger not a base effect if the action.

[Math Mathonwy]

27 minutes ago, CustardBomb said:

Does the rams trigger still generate a blast when targeting a feiendly model? 

Pg 30 of the rule book 'Attack actikns which target friendly models do not generate blasts'

Or does it get aroubd this since its a trigger not a base effect if the action.

Actually, that's an amazing question! I somehow automatically thought the latter but now that I look at it more, I'm actually very unsure. Or rather, kinda sure that it doesn't generate blasts - thank you!

Well, I suppose that cuts down on some of the micro juggling so that's a good thing, at least!

[Mxbedlam]

6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Actually, that's an amazing question! I somehow automatically thought the latter but now that I look at it more, I'm actually very unsure. Or rather, kinda sure that it doesn't generate blasts - thank you!

Well, I suppose that cuts down on some of the micro juggling so that's a good thing, at least!

I would say no. The rules pretty clearly state you can't generate blasts off friendly models. 

[Mxbedlam]

Going to be running a bit of Wong this weekend. Hoping to get at least 3 games in . I'm wondering if Pulting stuffies in on turn 3 and blasting off them isn't a way to go to get Wong's damage output increased? My only concern is that you have to let your opponent go between the Pult and Wong's activation which is plenty of time for that pig to die. 

[ShinChan]

1 minute ago, Mrbedlam said:

Going to be running a bit of Wong this weekend. Hoping to get at least 3 games in . I'm wondering if Pulting stuffies in on turn 3 and blasting off them isn't a way to go to get Wong's damage output increased? My only concern is that you have to let your opponent go between the Pult and Wong's activation which is plenty of time for that pig to die. 

Well, they will have to get to the pigs first. Depending on the deployment, it's a good strategy.

During the last tournament I wanted to play Pigapult + 2 Taxidermist + 1 Akaname, but I forgot my Pigapult model at home :'(

[Rathnard]

9 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Going to be running a bit of Wong this weekend. Hoping to get at least 3 games in .

Same here, funnily enough.

Right now I'm hoping to get more time in with the Slop Hauler, which seems to have some really good synergies with Wong's crew. I'm also keen to try out the Pigapult, especially as a way to address the crew's mobility issues.

[Rathnard]

So update time: Looks like I won't get as many games in this weekend as I thought, but I DID manage to get a game last night! 

It was 50SS Wong vs Kaeris, Corrupted Idols with Wedge Deployment.

My crew:

Wong
Olivia
Lightning Bug
Taxidermist
Pigapult
Swinecursed
Gracie
Slop Hauler
Flying Piglet
(6SS cache)

 

Opponent's crew:

Kaeris
Eternal Flame
Firestarter
Fire Golem w. Soulstone Cache
Carlos Vasquez
Elijah Borgman
Firebranded w. Magical Training
Fire Gamin

In short, Wong shot forward first activation and alongside some Pigapult-thrown stuffed piglets, managed to brutalise Kaeris's bunched up crew over the first two activations! They killed off the Eternal Flame, Firebranded and Fire Gamin, severely wounded the Fire Golem and put a few wounds on the rest. The rest of the game saw Kaeris throw Wong around until he died, while the rest of my crew waded through Pyre Markers to kill off the rest of Kaeris's crew, ending with Kaeris's corpse being (appropriately) turned into a Flying Piglet. With so much fire and explosions everywhere, Wong would have been proud.

 

Now for some model-specific thoughts;

WONG
I didn't take the Guille Suit on Wong mainly because there were no Ht 1 walls on the table to foil his Shockwave placement. But I'm starting to think I'm going to take it regardless. Ht 2 makes it easier to take advantage of his Glowy pulse, and Disguised is just too handy when your Master doesn't like to get engaged!  Wedge is great for Wong - he starts closer to the enemy and they're more likely to begin the game bunched up. As above, I took full advantage of this!  In retrospect the safer option probably would have been to push Wong up with the Swinecursed and maybe wait a little longer to start blasting the enemy with Shockwaves. Or perhaps I should have activated him later, using at least a couple of shockwaves to prime my crew with Fast and Glowy for next turn? In any case, Wong's early assault might have sealed his fate, but I can't really argue with the results! 

 

PIGAPULT

This sucker is legit. It helped deal massive damage in turn 1 by lobbing stuffed piglets into the enemy crew, then tossed a Lightning Bug on a flanking Carlos to finish him off and (later) push a corrupted idol marker. I feel like one of Wong's weakness's is his crew's tendency to bunch up, which makes it hard to get models up the flank to either achieve schemes or clear enemy flankers. The pigapult solves that. You can hurl any Ht 1 model in the crew to where they need to be and his 12" regular attack can help guard your deployment zone. Given that it's effectively 5SS when you consider the stuffed piglet it comes with, they seem like a really solid inclusion. 

 

LIGHTNING BUG

I've been pretty lukewarm on these guys lately - they're easy to kill, the heal needs a high card to cast and they're no good when engaged. But I'm starting to see some potential. Basically, I think these are guys are your Pigapult ammo.  From now on, my approach with them is to load them up with Glowy and hurl them at an enemy flankers. Between the Shockwave and the Bug's own attacks they should be very capable of taking down most of the cheap scheme runners your opponent might field. They can also move enemy scheme markers to less convenient spots and if they die, they'll explode and hopefully take their target with them! Basically, with some help from a Pigapult, the Lightning Bug is Wong's ideal flanking minion! 

 

SLOP HAULER

He didn't shine in this game like he had in the previous match, but I think he was nonetheless a worthwhile inclusion. His healing pulse kept Gracie and the Swinecursed topped up on wounds, and his ability to follow Gracie around helped him move up the table and place scheme markers while the Pigs were eating Arcanists. Overall, I still think he's worth the keyword tax for Wong. So long as I'm still taking Gracie and the Swinecursed, I'll likely continue using the Slop Hauler. 

 

FLYING PIGLET

TBH I'm seriously considering dropping this little dude for a second Lightning Bug. He's not terrible, but I feel like if I'm taking a Pigapult, the lightning Bug is just going to be a much better flanker and scheme runner. Besides, with a Taxidermist around I've got the opportunity to summon one in later in the game anyway.

 

That'll do for now. I'm keen to hear more opinions on what you think works for Wong! 

[Jocepi]

So quick question from a new player. If alot of Whiz-Bang have blast resistance +2 doesn't that reduce the damage to 0?  As the card is written the model suffers the damage and then it is reduced. So Ffzap would work and in the end the others are unscathed. 

[CustardBomb]

There is a generic rule in the rule book (sorry i dont have it on me right now to find a pg reference) which states that no damage reduction can reduce damage to 0. Unless otherwise specified. 

Off the top of my head. 

Shielded, Soulstones and Incorporeal can reduce damage to 0. 

 

In regards to the other point damage resuction happens before damage is suffered. So ifbyou did reduce damage to 0 you would not get a glowy token. 

[Mxbedlam]

So I got 2 games in this weekend. 1 in person and 1 on vassal both times I took the same crew:

Wong, Olivia, Gracie, Sammy, Taxi, Pigapult, Bug, 2 Stuffed. 

First game vs Sandeep in a corner turf war only went to turn 3 and was looking like a stupid tight game. Took advantage of the tight deployment to blast everyone early then had Gracie tow Wong around. Sammy and the glow helped set up my turn 2 hand to be full of severes and a RJ. Used the Pult to toss a bug up so that he could begin flinging markers where I needed to. Thanks to corner deploy I had a full turn 1 and most of turn 2 to set up without much fighting. L bug did kill a Mage on turn 2 thanks to irreducible damage triggers.  Taxi and Sammy turning corpse and scheme markers into additional piggies was so good. and the Detonate attack on the taxi is brutal.  Used WOng most of the game to Launch markers into space for Harness

I learned that flipping the Tome trigger on Gracie vs Counterspell FREAKING SUCKS because then you have to discard 2 cards so I ended up wasting a RJ on it. All in all was a tight game that i think would have ended up going into a 7-6 game either way. 

 

Vassal game was vs Hamelin and it was Flank Reckoning. 

Same list. 

Wong blew him out of the water. Rats didn't survive pigapult blasts, taxi got launched up  a bit so that he could get in and kill the stolen. He died after that but Gracie was there to make the day. Ended up callign it in turn 4 as a 7-2