M3E Kaeris tactica

[RedeemerAZ]

Ive seen alot of people say how bad FireBranded are. Ive only played 1 Firebranded now in 2 games, but their healing has been a lifesaver, especially when the enemy targets Carlos or Kaeris.  Their ranged damage is better then a Gamin, and though not as tough to killed as a Burning +6 gamin, I tend to keep them in the back so they survive quite a bit, especially with Magical Training and a pyre nearby.

[Vatic]

2 hours ago, RedeemerAZ said:

Ive seen alot of people say how bad FireBranded are. Ive only played 1 Firebranded now in 2 games, but their healing has been a lifesaver, especially when the enemy targets Carlos or Kaeris.  Their ranged damage is better then a Gamin, and though not as tough to killed as a Burning +6 gamin, I tend to keep them in the back so they survive quite a bit, especially with Magical Training and a pyre nearby.

I agree that the healing can be super nice, but have found them a bit slow relative to the targets they want to be healing (Kaeris, Carlos, maybe firestarter if you are running him). 

I find this means they are often sat somewhere central/backish so they are in range of more of the board, can stay near a pyre but can also become isolated/exposed and might not be in heal range. 

Or, they chase around after their healing target, struggle to stay near a pyre but are more likely to be in heal range. 

I also can't see myself ever running more than 1 at their current cost. It would be nice if running 2-3 was an option.

[Jordon]

My issue with the Fire Branded is the my main issue with the entire Wildfire keyword - which is that you are having to work harder to make things work then most crew have too.

I actually feel like the Fire Branded, when loaded up with burning, standing on a pyre marker are quite good. Positives to everything they do both offensively and defensively is great, especially when you start to factor in injured. If you have the mindset of treating them like a sentry turret then you can get some decent results from them. The problem is that you have to really babysit them in order to achieve this.

Using the M&SU as a counter, they simply get a bonus just by proximity of other M&SU for a very similar effect. Kaeris and wilfire as a whole are split between using the same resource for both a debuff and support so your having to choose between using pyre markers offensively or defensively.

I don't necessarily mind this mechanic if the risk/reward is worthwhile. Tara is a great example where risk/reward works. A high degree of planning and execution is needed but when it is used correctly, it can be extremely powerful.

I'm still unsure of whether Kaeris has this balance worked out correctly or not as she's a pretty complex keyword and will require much testing. I've seen her crew do some pretty impressive things. However I've seen it fall completely apart as well. Consistency has been a big issue with Wildfire IMO

Back to Fire Branded. They NEED pyre markers or they're garbage. Pyre markers are static, hard to acquire early on, and require planning and timing to get them where you need them. Fire Branded also use burning to do anything of note. Burning is a finite resource which you want, however it also hurts them. So even if you don't take a single hit all game, your still eventually going to need to heal yourself at some point as burning will eventually kill them.

I think they're good, I just wish they were easier to use. If promised to the flame reduced to 0, then I feel like they'd be a lot better as then you could stack up to burning +3 without taking any damage from it.

[TheForce]

An idea to improve firebranded:

I would like to have more consistent sources of pyre markers outside of kaeris. So perhaps firebranded could be that source. 

My idea is that their bonus action could either heal or create pyre markers by removing burning from models. That way it would still be a significant cost, both by removing burning and using up a bonus action that could otherwise be used to heal. 

One implementation of this idea could be to add a built-in trigger to their bonus action with the following text: "When resolving, if at least 3 burning is removed by this action, create a pyre marker within 1 of the target."

You can probably word that better and you could probably tweak the power of it (how much burning to remove, creating versus dropping the marker, etc), but hopefully this explains my idea. 

Så what do you guys think? 

[Jordon]

I'm not sure giving minions access to pyre markers is the best idea. While I agree that they have issues with getting enough Pyre markers early game. I also wouldn't want to have such a messy board filled to the brim with markers because there comes a point when it just gets too difficult to play on.

I have the same issue with Mei Feng who can litter the board with a stupid amount of scrap which can eventually take away from the experience IMO. I also don't want to need to have 20+ Pyre markers in order to play Kaeris correctly because that also sucks for new players looking to play Kaeris. 

I do however like the idea of "spreading fire" as that seems thematic to how fire actually works. One of my big problems with the Fire Branded is that they need fire gamin, Kaeris or the EF in oder to move around markers for them. What if they had a way to move markers on their own.

Spreading the flame: At the start of this models activation it may target a Pyre marker within 2". Place a Pyre marker in base contact with the target then discard the target. Any markers touching the Pyre marker are discarded. 

 

My second issue is the fact that they take damage from burning despite them requiring it to use. I don't think they should be immune to burning like the gamin. I like the idea of "playing with fire" and how it can be dangerous. However there should also be some benefit as well. 

Burning both ends: If this model suffers damage from the burning condition it may push 4" 

 

Other ideas that might be interesting 

Pyremancer: Enemy models within 3" treat their burning condition as +1 when resolving the burning condition. 

Fire Ritual: When an model is killed from the burning condition within 6". Drop a scheme marker in base contact with it before removing it. 

[Deeds]

Hi.

 

Could somebody tell me how Kaeris performs now in GG1?

[dannydb]

7 hours ago, Deeds said:

Hi.

 

Could somebody tell me how Kaeris performs now in GG1?

Kaeris still is a fairly mobile skirmish crew perticularly excelling at symbols in my opinion though could do public enemies as well I guess 

[Peturd]

Has anyone tried the captain with Kaeris? I haven’t gotten Kaeris on the table yet, Just getting the crew painted now, but he feels like he might have a nice bit of synergy. Good bit of defense tech. Can give out burning. More importantly can shove models in/through pyre makers. Thoughts? Experiences?

[dannydb]

Seems like a good possibility but I tend to use kaeris quite spread out so wouldn't get full benefit from his bubble. Prob More of a counter pick to Parker/perdita eta rathat than an auto pick 

[trikk]

Did anyone try Kandara with Kaeris? Turn 1 you can get 4 cards with 2 gamins from Focuses and She works nice with Firestarter because you can stack burning on her and then make her walk push 10" and drop a Marker.

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, trikk said:

Did anyone try Kandara with Kaeris? Turn 1 you can get 4 cards with 2 gamins from Focuses and She works nice with Firestarter because you can stack burning on her and then make her walk push 10" and drop a Marker.

I've tried her once. I got 2 extra cards on turn 1 from the 2 gamin, but can't see how you are getting 4 (I can get a third from Kahdara focusing, and I had the golem who could get the fourth but I don't see anything to stop the once per activation on Concentrate). And I think the movement they lost in the game was a bigger cost than the cards in turn 1. From what I can remember, the gamin didn't get much use out of the focus in the game I played, so it has some possibilities but I've yet to be convinced over all by it. It works better in Sandeep because you can set of multiple Mantra for that 1 action.

 

[trikk]

31 minutes ago, Adran said:

I've tried her once. I got 2 extra cards on turn 1 from the 2 gamin, but can't see how you are getting 4 (I can get a third from Kahdara focusing, and I had the golem who could get the fourth but I don't see anything to stop the once per activation on Concentrate). And I think the movement they lost in the game was a bigger cost than the cards in turn 1. From what I can remember, the gamin didn't get much use out of the focus in the game I played, so it has some possibilities but I've yet to be convinced over all by it. It works better in Sandeep because you can set of multiple Mantra for that 1 action.

 

2x Gamin, Kandara and Golem.

I found out that we focus + walk with most models T1 in most of our matches. Kandara also has Flameborne which means she can run through Pyre Markers and give that Burning Away to Golem etc.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, trikk said:

2x Gamin, Kandara and Golem.

I found out that we focus + walk with most models T1 in most of our matches. Kandara also has Flameborne which means she can run through Pyre Markers and give that Burning Away to Golem etc.

I might be in a more aggressive area, but my typical plan for the gamins is to try and get pyre markers up the board with 2 walk actions, and then use them as a teleport point for the Golem, allowing it to be aggressively engaged turn 1. If you play a cagier game, then there is more use to holding back, but conversely there is less use to the card draw . Card draw is always good, but if you're not planning on using the cards that turn then there is less value in it as it probably needs to be a severe card to make it worth holding on to, and you might actually make your deck worse if you are holding 7-9s in hand at the end of turn.

I also try and make use of dancing in the flames most turns, so I have a lower value for Focus on the gamin, and so am less likely to get to use it to draw cards once the fight begins. Mind you I don't get great results with my Wildfire crews, so my style is probably not the best.

 

[Vatic]

21 hours ago, trikk said:

Did anyone try Kandara with Kaeris? Turn 1 you can get 4 cards with 2 gamins from Focuses and She works nice with Firestarter because you can stack burning on her and then make her walk push 10" and drop a Marker.

I haven't tried her yet, but also thought she looked interesting, in particular if you are facing a bubble crew where she can give out staggered and improve the effectiveness of Kaeris/golemn/eternal flame forcing move duals. 

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Vatic said:

I haven't tried her yet, but also thought she looked interesting, in particular if you are facing a bubble crew where she can give out staggered and improve the effectiveness of Kaeris/golemn/eternal flame forcing move duals. 

OTOH I think the Mantra is broken and should be nerfed. I played vs Sandeep yesterday and he drew 25 cards across the game

[Plaag]

u just need borgmann in your crew, sometimes carlos and firestarter; golem, firebranded and gamins are useless

[HomelessOne]

So in the past year-ish, how has core hiring changes for you players? It seems like a number of people are foregoing Fire Gamin, using Eternal Flame to move the Golem turn one, and then planning on lots of Burning being out there for following turns I’d the Golem needs more movement.

[Da Git]

Why don't prople like Gamin? Too easy to kill?

They seem decent for 4ss models.

[Peturd]

6 hours ago, Da Git said:

Why don't prople like Gamin? Too easy to kill?

They seem decent for 4ss models.

As a general rule, it seems most people just don’t like 4SS models in general. They are good compared to their peers. But generally on this forum the stance tends to be “why spend stones on something that might die in one enemy activation, and can’t kill anything in one If it’s own activations”. I’m not sure I agree in all pools and for all masters. But I’m also not super experienced with Kaeris yet so I’ll defer to them on this one until I test it out myself.

There is no accounting for play style and local meta either.

[Plaag]

16 hours ago, Da Git said:

Why don't prople like Gamin? Too easy to kill?

They seem decent for 4ss models.

the basic models in kaeris are envy and borgman; rider for schemes; never take gamins, firebranded and golem with iggy; vasquez and firestarter are good, but picking them depends on situation; if u want heal-take medical automaton

[Peturd]

4 hours ago, Plaag said:

the basic models in kaeris are envy and borgman; rider for schemes; never take gamins, firebranded and golem with iggy; vasquez and firestarter are good, but picking them depends on situation; if u want heal-take medical automaton

Regarding Gamin: That’s not especially constructive, nor does it answer the question of why. You are just restating your opinion with no evidence, anecdotes or explanation. Same for golem, Iggy and firebranded. I’m sure plenty agree with you, at least on the firebranded.

Appreciate your logic and thoughts on the rest of who you bring and when. Thanks! I see the rider helping as a schemer but also giving Tomes our for the models you say suck doubles the burning output. Especially for some time df triggers.

[Plaag]

9 hours ago, Peturd said:

Regarding Gamin: That’s not especially constructive, nor does it answer the question of why. You are just restating your opinion with no evidence, anecdotes or explanation. Same for golem, Iggy and firebranded. I’m sure plenty agree with you, at least on the firebranded.

Appreciate your logic and thoughts on the rest of who you bring and when. Thanks! I see the rider helping as a schemer but also giving Tomes our for the models you say suck doubles the burning output. Especially for some time df triggers.

because of gg1 u dont need weak models that cant do something very well; for example-automaton is a great model because of his healing, gamin is a bad model because he cant schemeruning well, cant just leave enough for scoring something

[Madsvg]

I've been trying to main Kaeris crew a bit, and so far the gamin and golem seems far to weak for what they bring to the table. I've ran them for the 4 games I've played with the crew so far, and currently, I'm dropping them for the most part, as long as I have options.

My crew look like this currently:

- Kaeris, Flame, Borgman(M. Training), Carlos, Rider(Diesel Engine), Miner and Effigy(EoF)

This leaves 6 ss and looking for suggestions for improvements.

[dannydb]

Why does borgman have magical training over the miner? He doesn't get the extra card? 

[Madsvg]

That's actually a good point...

Would be the natural choice, yes. Think I just confused myself a bit there with how many changes I've done to the crew and got a bit lost.