M3E Kaeris tactica

[TheJoyInGaming]

On 9/23/2019 at 5:57 AM, Adran said:

Any time a model’s base is overlapping terrain, it is said to be in that terrain. If a model’s base is touching terrain (either overlapping or directly next to the terrain), that model is within 0" of that terrain.

Page 36

So yes they are in the hazardous terrain in they are in base contact with the hazardous terrain.

I don’t think this is true. If it was, models in base contact with each other would be inside each others’ base.

Edit: Your reading would actually break the game. Both Turf War and Corrupted Idols have rules which stipulate their Terrain Markers are Impassable and can only be interacted with whilst in base contact. The Impassable Terrain trait stipulates that models may not move through terrain with this trait. If models within 0”, or in base contact, are considered to be within the terrain they are in base contact with then no model may ever end in base contact with a Turf War Marker, or an Idol Marker, and consequently no model may ever interact with them.

Edited November 9, 2019 by TheJoyInGaming

[theamazingmrg]

7 minutes ago, Vatic said:

Firebranded started next to Elijah and hit him with a melee attack. I cheated in a low tome to have 2 tomes in the duel total. Elijah relented. Elijah definsivr trigger goes off due to the tomes in the duel total. This gave Elijah 3 burning and the firebranded burning 1.

If Elijah relents, he doesn't flip any cards, and so won't have any Tomes to use his Resistance trigger.

[TheJoyInGaming]

25 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

If Elijah relents, he doesn't flip any cards, and so won't have any Tomes to use his Resistance trigger.

Virtual rules pg 10 state that if a friendly model relents its final dual total is treated the exact same as the acting model’s final dual total. I believe this includes any suits from the acting model.

[theamazingmrg]

12 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Virtual rules pg 10 state that if a friendly model relents its final dual total is treated the exact same as the acting model’s final dual total. I believe this includes any suits from the acting model.

So it does.  For some reason my brain had it that a relenting model wouldn't be able to declare triggers.  In that case yeah, it should work!

[TheJoyInGaming]

1 minute ago, theamazingmrg said:

So it does.  For some reason my brain had it that a relenting model wouldn't be able to declare triggers.  In that case yeah, it should work!

Only reason I know already is because I was corrected after doing it wrong for a bit... 😅

[monkeyboy30672]

I'd love to use these strategies but I can't find a Carlos model anywhere. Is he in a core box somewhere, or is he in his own box?

[bertmac]

9 hours ago, monkeyboy30672 said:

I'd love to use these strategies but I can't find a Carlos model anywhere. Is he in a core box somewhere, or is he in his own box?

He's in a solo box

[monkeyboy30672]

Thanks, Bert! But is he only 2E, because I can't even find him on the Wyrd website.

[bertmac]

https://www.turolgames.com/en/arcanist-wyrd-miniatures/44918-carlos-vasquez

Try here.

[monkeyboy30672]

Muchas gracias! If it were in stock, that would be even better... 🤣But at least it's good to see that some places still advertise it! Thanks!

[Vangerdahast]

 

It seems that Carlos is available there: https://www.gadzooksgaming.com/search?q=carlos

 

[monkeyboy30672]

Oh my god, that's awesome! Got it! Thanks so much, Van!!! Not sure how that store didn't come up in any of my searches... 😕But at least he's on the way! Thanks again!

[RedeemerAZ]

Im confused by two points in the original post:

Random things to remember

• Charging generates two hazardous terrain hits.
  • How does this work? Do you taking the burning and injured on entering and exiting the terrain?
• Smolder damage is separate to attack damage; good vs Armor, bad vs Incorporeal.
  • I dont understand this.  Armor reduces all damage, so if smolder is a separate damage doesn't armor make this worse?  The smolder damage would be reduced to 0 and the regular damage reduced by 1 or 2.
  • Burning damage doesnt seem like it affects incorporeal, so it seems better for incorporeal? Incorporeal specifically says attack actions. What am I missing?

[Dark Reaper]

Charge is a move and an attack, so two instances of hazardous terrain hits.

Armour cannot reduce below one.

Normally, an incorporeal enemy would take normal burning dmg, but since this is an attack action, they take 1 less dmg, to a minimum of zero.

[RedeemerAZ]

Wow thanks, our gaming group totally missed that armor cannot reduce below 1, and that charging into pyres gives two hits.  This changes how we play big time.

[Morgan Vening]

12 hours ago, RedeemerAZ said:

Wow thanks, our gaming group totally missed that armor cannot reduce below 1, and that charging into pyres gives two hits.  This changes how we play big time.

It's in the Damage section, under Damage Reduction, second paragraph.

"Reduction may not decrease the total damage amount below 1 unless otherwise stated (such as by using Soulstones)"

[Arkille]

A quick question about kaeris : 

when she uses her raging inferno trigger on her conflagration, you place a pyre marker as a blast.My question is  : does the injured+1 and burning+1 of the pyre marker drop incur ?  (To summ up, does the target suffers damage + burning+2(1 from conflagration and 1 from the pyre) + injured+1.

 

Thx

[Jordon]

Hey all, just delving into Kaeris for the first time in M3E and I had some questions

 

1) How many pyre markers should I have? It looks like most games could commonly expect to see 10+ markers a game. 

2) What does her keyword excel at and where does it struggle? 

3) Are there any tricks/combos that aren't obvious. 

4) What and where should I be putting my upgrades. 

5) Does Kaeris crews burn (excuse the pun) through many Soulstones? 

 

Thanks!

[Jinn]

10 hours ago, Arkille said:

A quick question about kaeris : 

when she uses her raging inferno trigger on her conflagration, you place a pyre marker as a blast.My question is  : does the injured+1 and burning+1 of the pyre marker drop incur ?  (To summ up, does the target suffers damage + burning+2(1 from conflagration and 1 from the pyre) + injured+1.

 

Thx

"If a Marker is Dropped, it is simply put on the table in the indicated location without any further game effects; this is not considered moving the Marker." (pg. 28 CRB)

I've played a decent number of Kaeris games (she's probably my favourite Master in Arcanists in an individual model sense)

6 hours ago, Jordon said:

1) How many pyre markers should I have? It looks like most games could commonly expect to see 10+ markers a game. 

That seems about right in my experience, although if you lean into the keyword and hire all the fire elementals + Carlos I could see you needing more, but that'd be a rarity. Ideally Kaeris would drop two per turn, usually less though as you need a trigger.

 

6 hours ago, Jordon said:

2) What does her keyword excel at and where does it struggle? 

Most of her keyword are a bit under par at the moment but if you were hiring a thematic crew I would say their strength would be in using melee to defend a prepared position (wherever you put your pyre markers) and their weakness would be models that don't come and fight them on their turf (and, for the elementals, any form of condition removal can be very painful). The main weakness of the keyword is that most of the models seem to want Kaeris to sit around and waste her Pyres on them, just to bring them up to par with other models defensively. This is a painful choice because Kaeris is best used aggressively pressuring the enemy with her Pyres and Run and Gun. Many Kaeris players have just scrapped the Keyword models that rely on her support and switched to Versatiles for this reason.

If you want to take thematic models and still remain somewhat competitive then the Fire Golem, Carlos, and the Firestarter are all decent, and taking one Firebranded for healing is fine as well. Carlos is great at scheming and offers a good teleport target for the Fire Golem. The Firestarter is made of glass and will get more fragile as you use Reckless, but he can do some good scheming if you keep him out of attack range and when you're ready for him to die he can do a bit of damage as well with his gun.

6 hours ago, Jordon said:

3) Are there any tricks/combos that aren't obvious.

I don't know exactly what of these is obvious, but here are a few tips.

Her main attack, which is min 3 against burning targets, is min 2 against Armor +2 models and min 1 against Incorporeal models due to the trigger creating a separate instance of damage. Not exactly a trick, but Kaeris can be very countered by Incorporeal crews, even though they don't get to ignore her hazardous.

If you create a Pyre and then charge into it you get the burning from resolving the charge before you take the action generated by the charge, which you can then use foron the attack. It is usually worth it to end your activation in a Pyre with burning as you'll probably be able to get rid of it as aon df. The Magical Training upgrade is pretty great on Kaeris though as it will block the 1 burning damage you might take if your opponent doesn't attack you after you end in a pyre. Shielded is great with Armor anyway.

It is obvious and not really a trick but the Eternal Flame can really screw up crews that are bubbled together. The threat range on this thing moving a Pyre marker on top of an enemy is pretty insane; it can move 10" and then target a Pyre from 10" away and place it anywhere within 3". As a follow up to Kaeris hitting her blast trigger or just her putting a Pyre kind of near enemies this thing will almost always be putting hazardous under something (usually multiple somethings) on turn 1 or 2 and it can follow up with a big  of TN13 Mv duel or 1 dmg + 1 burning.

7 hours ago, Jordon said:

4) What and where should I be putting my upgrades. 

Other than MT on Kaeris, I liked Soulstone Cache on Elijah until I stopped bringing him, and Magical Training on a Firebranded if you aren't hiring Soulstone Miners. Diesel Engine is a great upgrade but not really worth it on the Eternal Flame, which is the only thematic construct.

7 hours ago, Jordon said:

5) Does Kaeris crews burn (excuse the pun) through many Soulstones? 

I'd take a decent amount of stones as you'll need them for the quick reflexes trigger on her bonus action and keeping the Firestarter alive if you take him.

[Jordon]

Okay I know this is not likely a competitive idea but I was trying to think of ways to setup her crew turn 1 as efficiently as possible. Obviously this only makes the most sense in a fully thematic wildfire crew (which is the only way I play). Here is the Rube Goldberg turn 1 to try and maximize the burning support for her crew. 

Again this is likely not competitive as I'm only thinking about my own activations and not what the opponent is doing. However perhaps there are pieces of this that can be used here and there for those looking to top up their own models with burning. I'm sure there are other optimal actions / models to get this working so I'd love to hear how others typically spend their first turns. 

It's also very possible that I've misread something, causing this whole idea to crumble. Let me know if any of this sounds illegal.

 

The list 

- Kaeris + MT

- Eternal Flame

- 2x Fire Gamin

- 2x Fire Branded

- Elijah

- Fire Golem

- Fire Starter

 

Kaeris Turn 1

 

Hand Requirements:

 

3+ Ram

5+ Mask / Soulstone

1+ Tome (mid-high is better) / Soulstone

1+ Tome (optional)

 

Deployment:

 

• Fire gamin in front roughly 2” apart
• Elijah in Front in between both gamin
• Fire Branded right behind the gamin roughly 1.5” apart
• Fire Golem behind both Fire Branded, in-between them.
• The important thing is that all of these models should be touchable by a single 50mm marker
• Kaeris is to to one side of either of the Fire Branded
• Eternal Flame is on the other side of the other Fire Branded
• Fire Starter on the front and off to one side of the whole crew off by himself but within 8” of both Fire Branded

 

 

 

1st Activation - Elijah:

 

• If you have a mid-low tome. Use Immolate on a friendly model. Since no one has burning, no one will suffer any damage. However the trigger will still go off allowing you to draw a two cards and discard one.
• Make sure you have a ram. Use his free action to heal and give himself burning +1. The trigger allow him to give everyone within (2) burning +2. This should tag everyone except the fire starter.
• Walk forward

 

2nd Activation - Kaeris:

 

• Make sure you have a 5+ mask or use a Soulstone to get one. Use her free action to create a pyre roughly 6” away from herself. Using the trigger to place another one at max range.
• Charge into that pyre marker (but targeting one of the fire gamin) giving her +2 burning (total burning = 4). Make sure you have a tome. If you have another lower card than the tome, don’t relent. Make sure she fails the duel but her trigger states “after resolving” so you’ll be able to drop another pyre as a blast marker. If you can’t force a fail then make sure you use the armour on the gamin to reduce the damage. Either way if you spaced everyone out correctly then you should have tagged both gamin, both fire branded and the golem. Also a bonus if you can flip a tome on the gamin to give Kaeris an additional burning, however its not worth cheating one in.
• Use Fan the flame (giving her burning +1 due to her standing in the pyre) and push the far most pyre towards the enemy crew.
• Her last action is pretty open. You can shoot another one of your models if you have another tome to burn. You can fan the flame again on the marker that she is standing on to push it towards your crew or the enemy crew. Or you can simply focus or move up. Either way you should end her activation with burning 6

 

3rd Activation - Fire Golem

 

• As soon as he activates, he’ll give everyone within (2) burning +1. This should tag the eternal flame, both gamin and both fire branded.
• Use you free action (which will give you burning +1 due to being in pyre marker) to teleport slightly behind Elijah (removing his 1 burning and giving it to the golem.
• Use flaming tornado which should be able to tag both gamin and the golem. If you positioned Kaeris pyre marker close enough then you may have been able to land in it, giving additional burning. Either way the golem should be sitting on 11-13 burning by the end of its activation.

 

4th - 5th activation

 

• Walk both gamin, be sure to drag the starting marker. The second gamin can walk it even further, gaining burning along the way. Both gamin should be at 10+ burning.

 

6th activation

 

• Use the fire starters “light under their feet” on both fire branded who should have burning +4 each, pushing them 10” up the board and into the pyre markers that the gamin walked up the board. Thus giving them burning +1 in the process.
• If you went reckless then you can walk forward

 

7th - 8th activation

 

• Fire branded each shoot twice and heal if necessary. They should have positives due to standing in the pyre marker.

 

Eternal flame

 

• He can basically go at any point after Kaeris. Double walk and push the far most pyre deep into the enemy crew.

 

End of the turn. Both Fire Branded will end up taking a point of damage from burning if they haven’t used it defensively. However the whole crew should have enough burning to fuel them so you shouldn’t have to worry so much about supporting them from turn 2 onward.

[Adran]

8 hours ago, Jordon said:

2nd Activation - Kaeris:

 

• Make sure you have a 5+ mask or use a Soulstone to get one. Use her free action to create a pyre roughly 6” away from herself. Using the trigger to place another one at max range.
• Charge into that pyre marker (but targeting one of the fire gamin) giving her +2 burning (total burning = 4). Make sure you have a tome. If you have another lower card than the tome, don’t relent. Make sure she fails the duel but her trigger states “after resolving” so you’ll be able to drop another pyre as a blast marker. If you can’t force a fail then make sure you use the armour on the gamin to reduce the damage. Either way if you spaced everyone out correctly then you should have tagged both gamin, both fire branded and the golem. Also a bonus if you can flip a tome on the gamin to give Kaeris an additional burning, however its not worth cheating one in.
•  

"when resolving" is not the same as "after resolving".  You need to succeed to do a "when resolving" trigger, its effects will occur during the resolving of the action.

[Chilbi]

11 hours ago, Jinn said:

It is obvious and not really a trick but the Eternal Flame can really screw up crews that are bubbled together. The threat range on this thing moving a Pyre marker on top of an enemy is pretty insane; it can move 10" and then target a Pyre from 10" away and place it anywhere within 3".

But only 3" of the Pyres current location. Not sure if I remember correctly tho.

[blueskies_overhead]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:25 AM, Arkille said:

A quick question about kaeris : 

when she uses her raging inferno trigger on her conflagration, you place a pyre marker as a blast.My question is  : does the injured+1 and burning+1 of the pyre marker drop incur ?  (To summ up, does the target suffers damage + burning+2(1 from conflagration and 1 from the pyre) + injured+1.

 

Thx

Just read the rules. "drop" is not considered a move so the hazardous terrain effects would not happen that turn. 

[HadjiMurat]

Regarding Dancing in the flames, can you place the marker under an enemy?

Gets confusing when its not dropped or created. Does it count as moving the marker?

Cheers

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, HadjiMurat said:

Regarding Dancing in the flames, can you place the marker under an enemy?

Gets confusing when its not dropped or created. Does it count as moving the marker?

Cheers

Yes, you can place a pyre marker under a model. Yes, it counts as moving the marker. (Place is a movement effect)