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I have a couple of questions I would like some clarification on. All answers are appreciated.

1. The Steam Trunk’s Armory ability reads: After a friendly Minion or Freikorps model within 3” discards an Equipment upgrade, it may discard a card to Attach a different Equipment upgrade.

As written, it appears that different only refers to an Equipment other than the one discarded, meaning a model can use a Rocket Launcher, discard it, and use Armory to attach a second Rocket Launcher so long as the second one is still available. Is this correct?

2. The Rocket Launcher attack action has a Once per Turn clause. What happens if a Rocket Launcher attack action is used, thereby discarding the Equipment, and another Rocket Launcher is attached. Is this new Rocket Launcher attack action still unavailable due to the Once per Turn clause on the previously discarded upgrade or can this Rocket Launcher attack action be used since it is a “newly” acquired attack action?

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Once per turn is once per turn per model. 

Not once per turn per instance of the action.  So once a model has used a once per turn action it can not take that action again from any source.

 

There is a difference between a different model which has an identical profile and a different physical piece of cardboard. You would probably need to try and argue game memory outside of the game area, which would then force you to treat every piece or cardboard and plastic as unique, so no summoning something that has previously had a physical presence in the game even if it then died. That sounds like a very bad idea. 

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6 hours ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

I have a couple of questions I would like some clarification on. All answers are appreciated.

1. The Steam Trunk’s Armory ability reads: After a friendly Minion or Freikorps model within 3” discards an Equipment upgrade, it may discard a card to Attach a different Equipment upgrade.

As written, it appears that different only refers to an Equipment other than the one discarded, meaning a model can use a Rocket Launcher, discard it, and use Armory to attach a second Rocket Launcher so long as the second one is still available. Is this correct?

I’m not quite sure what’s supposed to happen next, here.

👻  I think either I or @santaclaws01 are supposed to visit you on the eve of a tournament, dragging chains forged out of 1st and 2nd edition Malifaux cards, and tell you that you will be visited by three ghosts.  Are the ghosts of playtesters past, future and present good, because I think the developer ghosts are in convention season?  👻

Because attaching an identical upgrade to the one that you just discarded is what that statement is prohibiting, using the obscure meaning of the word “different” meaning “not identical”.

Edit:  On a slightly more serious note, please consider the wording in the Upgrade Cards rules:

Quote

No matter what, however, a model cannot Attach two or more copies of the same Upgrade; if it attempts to do so, the second copy is discarded without effect.

Note the meaning of the word "same" in that sentence.  When the rules refer to "the same Upgrade" or "a different Upgrade", that's the sort of context that's being used.

 

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Wouldn’t the Shove Aside trigger have a hard time finding targets then when facing an enemy crew with multiples of a model?

If not, and you are allowed to, for example, Shove Aside a Sorrow and target another Sorrow, then it would follow that the two Sorrows are considered “different” despite sharing everything but physical space in the game area.

What then disqualifies two Rocket Launchers from being “different” upgrades and still interacting with Armory in the manner I described in my initial question?

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57 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Wouldn’t the Shove Aside trigger have a hard time finding targets then when facing an enemy crew with multiples of a model?

What game state is there to differentiate between the two Rocket Launcher upgrades, or prove that the Rocket Launcher upgrade you removed from the model is a different Rocket Launcher upgrade than the one you detached from the model?  You started with an upgrade with the name Rocket Launcher attached to a given model, and you're ending with an upgrade of the same name attached to the same model.  Prove that it's a different upgrade.  

Two models with the same name constitute different models because they occupy different positions, have distinct game states (wounds, activation status, etc).  And effects such as summoning specify things such as this:

Quote

Some Actions and Abilities can Summon a model. Summoning places a brand new model (specified by the Summoning effect) into play, adding the model to a player's existing Crew. After a model is Summoned in a Crew, the opposing Crew gains a Pass Token.

 

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I have another question for freikorps. Does Shielded prevent Freikorpsman from using his ability Equipment Training? 


Equipment Training: When this model would discard an Equipment Upgrade, it may instead suffer 1 damage to not do so.

page 24 manual
If a model suffers 0 damage it is not considered to have suffered damage

Ho this rule interact with Shielded? 

 

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7 hours ago, Adran said:

There is a difference between a different model which has an identical profile and a different physical piece of cardboard. You would probably need to try and argue game memory outside of the game area, which would then force you to treat every piece or cardboard and plastic as unique, so no summoning something that has previously had a physical presence in the game even if it then died. That sounds like a very bad idea. 

Yes, my issue was with whether or not there would be a “game memory” issue involuntarily introduced with the wording of Armory

@solkan I saw those upgrade rules but wanted to avoid a possible rabbit hole on the term “same”. Thank you and @Adran for the rules help and for the odd image of you in M2E cars chains. 👻

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39 minutes ago, Radek said:

I have another question for freikorps. Does Shielded prevent Freikorpsman from using his ability Equipment Training? 


Equipment Training: When this model would discard an Equipment Upgrade, it may instead suffer 1 damage to not do so.

page 24 manual
If a model suffers 0 damage it is not considered to have suffered damage

Ho this rule interact with Shielded? 

 

Equipment training isn't contingent on any damage actually being suffered.

 

25 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Yes, my issue was with whether or not there would be a “game memory” issue involuntarily introduced with the wording of Armory

There wouldn't really be a point in including the word different if the model could just attach a "different" upgrade of the same name. Take a look at Shenlong's Master of the Five Temples. Discard all attached Style Upgrades, then Attach a Style upgrade. Marcus has the same thing but with Mutations. Also, as Solkan pointed out earlier the text about trying to attach the same upgrade points to different physical cards not being the same as different upgrades, but additionally to that there's the Plentiful restriction which uses the term "copies" when refering to how many of that upgrade can be in play, which further implies that they're all the same upgrade in that regard.

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On 7/22/2019 at 2:51 PM, Radek said:

I have another question for freikorps. Does Shielded prevent Freikorpsman from using his ability Equipment Training? 


Equipment Training: When this model would discard an Equipment Upgrade, it may instead suffer 1 damage to not do so.

page 24 manual
If a model suffers 0 damage it is not considered to have suffered damage

Ho this rule interact with Shielded? 

 

The model still suffers 1 damage, it just gets reduced to 0. The second part of text doesn't seem reliant on the first part, and the ability doesn't read like "if this model suffered damage" so I think its probably fine, Radek! I'm sure Wyrd would have made it irreducible if they wanted the damage to stick.

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