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No other input than detonate the charges seems like a.. well.. bad scheme. Molly sure can help with that, but I feel it's a very awkward scheme. Doing it with only interactions seems almost impossible (because of the 4" restriction), but opponents also seem to smell it miles away and use pushes or what not to prevent you from scoring (in case the scheme-marked model has already activated, if not, they simply walk/disengage away).

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5 hours ago, unti said:

On the terrain part I think the opposite was the problem... We had wedge deployment, on one side I had to cross a river and a wood to get to the other half of the table, and the other side was only a river to cross but not very much cover/concealment to hide behind. So fuhatsu stood in the middle of the board, score claim jump and shoot...

Severe terrain favours shooters. Blocking terrain hampers them.

Also wedge deployment favours combat-oriented teams.

So overall, you were definitely fighting an uphill battle. You could have done some things better (as someone said, plant explosives is almost always questionable on Molly, especially with how good she is at the other schemes), but also it was a rough match. Don't beat yourself up!

EDIT: For dealing with that type of severe terrain, make sure to have Archie leap across them and flat out run. Then have the crooligans teleport to him and deploy explosives. Sounds like that would have put you far away from his units (or made them come to you if they intended to deny you). Also, if claim jump is part of the matchup, Philip and the Nanny is super good at claim jump.

EDIT2: Also, Forgotten is a super maneuverable crew. Sometimes you want to snag your schemes early, but it is also fine to spend the first few turns dancing for positioning, getting a few solid hits on vulnerable enemies (like scheme runners), and then snag your schemes in the last two turns of the game. Crooligans often spend half the game hiding behind and focusing for me. For instance, you might have turn 1 teleport and plant, turn 2 hide and focus, turn three hide and focus, turn four teleport and scheme. Focus is useful for defense, or surprise assassinations as they hit like a truck when hand sizes line up and you have focus.

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I played a game with Molly on Friday night versus von schill. It was turf war and I took deliver a message and dig their graves. My list was Molly, Necrotic Machine, Phillip and the Nanny, Archie with GST, Forgotten Marshall, carrion effigy and two Crooligan. Won the game 6-3 should have been 7-3 but I’ll explain that one. His list was Hulk Hogan, steam trunk, Hannah, Lazarus, strong arm, librarian and freikorp man.

Was a really frustrating game for my opponent, Archie was nigh unkillable with gst and other healing from machine and effigy. Highlights were the effigy putting up his decayng aura on Von Schill and then as a result after being softened up by Molly with disturbing I killed him with a Crooligan! Forgetting that I had deliver the message! Phillip and the nanny just frustrated the hell out of him. Slow was pivotal on Lazarus. Pretty much only lost a summoned punk zombie( I will always call them that!) . Got all the start points and dig but white line fever meant I missed deliver.

I think in turf war Phillip is good. I ran him to the middle marker and just trolled all game. Archie jumped around killing stuff. I was worried coming in to the game about all the armour and shielded he would have but luckily sheer weight of attacks took care of it. I’m not sold on the Marshall . I gave him the whisper but still only ever had an crow decent enough for him once in the game. Just not convinced. His gun is ok but not a good reason to take him. Effigy was great, healing and decaying aura then in turn 4 I turned him into the big bird. By then overkill but still fun.. 

Really enjoyed the crew and I’m soloing Molly for a while until I get settled into 3. I’m sure a big loss is around the corner but hey I like the feel and fluff of the forgotten.

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34 minutes ago, Theroofisonfire said:

I think in turf war Phillip is good. I ran him to the middle marker and just trolled all game. Archie jumped around killing stuff. I was worried coming in to the game about all the armour and shielded he would have but luckily sheer weight of attacks took care of it. I’m not sold on the Marshall . I gave him the whisper but still only ever had an crow decent enough for him once in the game. Just not convinced. His gun is ok but not a good reason to take him.

I agree, I think Philip & Nanny are underrated. On claim jump they just get ridiculous. I also haven't been sold on the Marshal on paper. I'm a big planner, and his inability to stone for suits just makes him too inconsistent for getting the tools I want I feel. That said, for one more point than a punk riser, I guess you can't expect much more.

EDIT: Not to mention crows triggers are already critical to the gameplan for Forgotten, so if you're using up your crows on Marshal, you're straining your resources even more.

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Rabble Risers seem good, don't know why peeps disregard them somewhat. Maybe not good enough? Anyway, challenging your own models seem a nice trick in addition to everything else they do for 6 stones.

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 I also haven't been sold on the Marshal on paper. I'm a big planner, and his inability to stone for suits just makes him too inconsistent for getting the tools I want I feel. That said, for one more point than a punk riser, I guess you can't expect much more.

EDIT: Not to mention crows triggers are already critical to the gameplan for Forgotten, so if you're using up your crows on Marshal, you're straining your resources even more.

He does need a crow to succeed but Molly goes through so many cards that I've found it isn't too difficult to get one when you need it. He's pretty situational though. I probably take him 25% of the time or so in a Molly crew.   

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On 8/31/2019 at 9:07 AM, unti said:

Sure, I played 

Molly 

Necrotic machine

Archie

Philip

Forgotten Marshall

2x rabble riser

2x crooligan

 

His crew

Misaki

Shang

Torakage

Crime boss

Tanuki

Lone swordsman

Fuhatsu

Yasunori

 

My plan was to plant the bombs early with my crooligans and score after that detonate the charges with them. One scheme marker was already in the right spot but sadly the crooligans just evaporated. Second scheme I chose vendetta with the forgotten Marshall on a crime boss (I scored 1 VP from that).

On the terrain part I think the opposite was the problem... We had wedge deployment, on one side I had to cross a river and a wood to get to the other half of the table, and the other side was only a river to cross but not very much cover/concealment to hide behind. So fuhatsu stood in the middle of the board, score claim jump and shoot...

I think the game just took a bad turn, and the way we play showed it's problems. We choose s&s, faction and master before we meet, and build the board when we meet, most of the time we have already finished our list at this time. The board had a lot of severe and my deployment boxed me completely in. I should have changed my crew and add some flying/unimpeded models eg rider, night terrors...

This can prove to be a problem as schemes and list can easily be tailored for terrain to be more advantageous and in conjunction with one another.

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If there's a lot of variance in tables you play but want to prebuild lists, try to keep a few flexible slots to to swap in your more mobile pieces for those hard to traverse tables. Or shooty pieces for those open tables. Or whathaveyou. I do it for tournaments all the time.

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I recently took Molly for a spin against Asami in Corrupted Idols, with this crew:

Molly, Necrotic Machine, Archie with GST, Dead Rider with GST, The Forgotten Marshall with Whisper, 2x Crooligan. 

Asami had Amanjuka, Ama-No-Zako, a Dawn Serpent and 2x  Jorogumo both with the From The Shadows equivalent upgrade.

 

I figured having plenty Soulstones (9) and GST on my big boys would be important in Idols, but post game I think that was a mistake. Given the way Fading and Gorgon's Influence works, and how she isn't hugely dependent on suits, Molly just doesn't seem Soulstone hungry imo.

 

Personally I quite like The Forgotten Marshal, especially with Whisper. Despite not being able to Stone for suits, he can happily dig for a decent :crowto summon with, or otherwise put a :ramon top to threaten Critical Strike on his gun, with Whisper's free look. I especially like how frustrating he is to kill, because not only does he have HtW, and HtK and two different ways to heal himself, but Forgotten usually offer other healing options too. As an added bonus, he offers great utility with the Box to snatch up and abduct problem models that you don't want to deal with. 

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@hydranixx cool :)

I agree, Molly doesn't need many soulstones. I usually take about 3 on her unless I'm worried about an assassinate. I go up to 5 on occasion.

With corrupted idols, I always take a GST on a crooligan. With Archie's maneuverability, I can usually have a crooligan snag an idol and teleport away before the crooligan is in danger.

And since Molly dominates the placement exceptionally well with all her card draw, I find I often have the leisure of emphasising corrupted idols with my game plan.

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I’m still not convinced by the forgotten Marshall. Played against a Zipp crew last night and he did manage to summon a punk zombie and a nigh terror but I found my self in many turns just noodling around wondering what to do with him. For his cost I could have hired the punk and the night terror and not have had to worry about slow or wounds. I’ll perservere but I find his utility isn’t great

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1 minute ago, Theroofisonfire said:

I’m still not convinced by the forgotten Marshall. Played against a Zipp crew last night and he did manage to summon a punk zombie and a nigh terror but I found my self in many turns just noodling around wondering what to do with him. For his cost I could have hired the punk and the night terror and not have had to worry about slow or wounds. I’ll perservere but I find his utility isn’t great

What? With Molly's card draw if you can't find a high crow you're doing something wrong. And Night Terror + Rabble Riser is 12SS; he's almost half that. 

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1 hour ago, nomoredroids said:

What? With Molly's card draw if you can't find a high crow you're doing something wrong. And Night Terror + Rabble Riser is 12SS; he's almost half that. 

Finding a high crow is easy, but you also need them for your best triggers in some matchups (scheme marker removal anywhere on the table). It should be doable, but isn't exactly a non-issue.

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7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Finding a high crow is easy, but you also need them for your best triggers in some matchups (scheme marker removal anywhere on the table). It should be doable, but isn't exactly a non-issue.

Excellent point. 

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20 hours ago, nomoredroids said:

What? With Molly's card draw if you can't find a high crow you're doing something wrong. And Night Terror + Rabble Riser is 12SS; he's almost half that. 

Its surprising also how statistically yes i shold be able to get a high crow but in actuality sometimes i dont get any crows at all. plus if all i have is one high crow i might want to use that crow for Molly's debt of gratitude trigger or indeed it might be my only severe and someone else wants it.

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That as well! I find all severe cards are desperately needed to augment the crew's attacks.  And even with all the card draw, I want to discard 5+ cards a turn, so every card counts.

I haven't tested Marshal yet, but I just think people should be aware of the true cost of using him. I'll test him if I ever buy night terrors xD

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

That as well! I find all severe cards are desperately needed to augment the crew's attacks.  And even with all the card draw, I want to discard 5+ cards a turn, so every card counts.

I haven't tested Marshal yet, but I just think people should be aware of the true cost of using him. I'll test him if I ever buy night terrors xD

Buy them. I love Night Terrors. You're right too that they're the most efficient model to summon by the marshal.  

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I've been looking at including sloth to keep Archie alive since the slow does not apply and to fast up someone else, could be the Marshall.

My base I've been contemplating is

Molly

Machine

Archie GST

Marshall whisper

Sloth

Fill to taste probably Rider plus 1-2 more models.

 

Now I've yet to play it though, I'm thinking could summon twice a turn easily with reactivating the Marshall, card draw and deck stacking. Plus sh6 12" gun is not bad. 

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6 hours ago, newsun said:

I've been looking at including sloth to keep Archie alive since the slow does not apply and to fast up someone else, could be the Marshall.

 

Seems like a niche model for that purpose. He obviously heals Archie better than the effigy, nurse, or bone pile but is it worth it for his narrow capabilities after that? The range and standard 3 healing without a flip is really nice. 

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if you're struggling with Archie dying, it may be a positioning issue. He has defense and willpower 4. He survives through strategic use of his leap ability. I also take Grave Spirit's Touch on him.

A common sequence for me is they get him down to 1-3 life, then start turn regeneration plus I flurry for the heal, leap to safety and move. Then next turn I do the same thing, and it's an 8 health swing without him being hit.

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3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

A common sequence for me is they get him down to 1-3 life, then start turn regeneration plus I flurry for the heal, leap to safety and move. Then next turn I do the same thing, and it's an 8 health swing without him being hit.

Another option that I tend to use when I want to get rid of bad cards (which I always seem to have in abundance) and want him to burst up in health is Challenge him with a punk zombie on one activation, then next activation activate Archie and have him go crazy on whatever random target. He has to discard to be able to target that model, so with flurry you're talking four discards and four heals. Card intensive? Absolutely. Just doing it once will often leave the idea in your opponents mind that going after Archie just isn't worth it, and he could be safer after that for games to come. Even if you know you're just going to leap, walk, attack once with no flurry, the Challenge then becomes a one card discard to top him up. It's one of the best uses you can get out of a random 6 in your hand to discard for a 2pt heal.

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8 hours ago, Trample said:

Seems like a niche model for that purpose. He obviously heals Archie better than the effigy, nurse, or bone pile but is it worth it for his narrow capabilities after that? The range and standard 3 healing without a flip is really nice. 

Niche? He can tank with shielded, damage, make people slow/fast and his bonus heal which has no downside for Archie and the summons. Maybe I'm missing something though seems like a great pick.

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12 hours ago, Trample said:

Seems like a niche model for that purpose. He obviously heals Archie better than the effigy, nurse, or bone pile but is it worth it for his narrow capabilities after that? The range and standard 3 healing without a flip is really nice. 

Heal 3, at 10", as a free action, without TN or discarding a card, it's reaaaally good. He also works really nice again crews that have easy access to healing and can deliver slow quite easily to the enemy and give fast to one of your guys (Rogue Necromancy?). The only downside is that he is quite slow, I guess being Sloth comes with a cost :P But nothing that the Death Rider can't fix.

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19 hours ago, newsun said:

Niche? He can tank with shielded, damage, make people slow/fast and his bonus heal which has no downside for Archie and the summons. Maybe I'm missing something though seems like a great pick.

I would be interested in hearing how he does in-game. I'm not seeing the value for points there relative to my other options in a Molly crew, but I've been wrong before!  

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3 hours ago, Trample said:

I would be interested in hearing how he does in-game. I'm not seeing the value for points there relative to my other options in a Molly crew, but I've been wrong before!  

I'll update once I try it. Will need to proxy or acquire some models first.

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