Molly - share your lists

[Trample]

I'm resurrecting this thread a bit, but hey, that's what we do, right? 

I've moved into a pretty standard list with Molly that I'm using in all non-reckoning strategies and I don't have something very specific to counter. It's been working pretty well for me in the last several games. 

The list is Molly, Necrotic Machine, Dead Rider, Archie, 3x Crooligans, and 3x Night Terrors. If dig graves is in the pool I'll swap a night terror for a restless spirit. 

The general idea behind the list is to put so much pressure on your opponent from a scheme and strategy standpoint that they are unable to put together enough actions to score the schemes they need to score to win the game. As was referenced in the Molly podcast on Third Floor Wars above, Molly is great for getting ahead of the curve on strategy. She can easily put down 4 plant explosives markers on turn 1 (I did so in tournament games both this weekend and last); it's easy for her to out-activate folks in turn one (I have 10 models and Molly is usually reactivating 2 night terrors in turn one) so she'll usually have the idol marker on the opponent's side of the board; and similarly it's fairly easy to have 3 turf markers flipped for you turn one and have the bulk of your forces on the opponents side of the table. 

It's not very difficult to find a couple of schemes in any pool that you can almost guarantee scoring on turn two. This crew does detonate (Molly can score this on her own), breakthrough, harness, search, dig (molly often drops the marker with her attack and finishes the job with a follow -up), hold up their forces, outflank, and power ritual (in flank and corner only).  If you can find two of these you have enough actions and mobility in this crew to score the first point for all of those on turn two. I've been able to finish turn 2 with 3 points in the last 6 Molly games I've played. 

At the same time you have a lot of anti-scheme capability. Crooligans and Molly can both frustrate opponents with their ability to prevent marker-based schemes. Crooligans can pick up two markers per turn and Molly up to three. Molly's is obviously trigger dependent and Crooligans are limited on one of their two methods. I've been working to prevent my opponents from keeping any markers on the table. The result has been that the opponent, in most cases, has to devote so many more actions to completing marker based schemes that they fall behind in their goals and run out of actions to accomplish what they intended. This, along with scoring 3 points in turn two, tends to put opponents in catch-up mode, break from their plan. and begin to make mistakes. 

Molly is the tricky one to use here I think, since she can do so much. She tries to reactivate two models in turn one, but in turn two she'll be responsible for detonate or dig if needed. Her card draw usually helps you make sure you can hit triggers when you need them. If she can activate models again in turns 2+ she will because I do start to lose models with the squishyness of Cooligans and Night Terrors. Archie and the Rider do their best to help keep the opponent model count down. Opponents will regularly focus too much on Archie, who likes to leap around and kill scheme runners to further frustrate their attempts to score. 

It's been a really strong list for me lately, so I thought I would share. 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Trample, awesome!

The only thing I wonder is if it is overkill on schemes? Even with two crooligans + molly, I find I dominate most scheme marker schemes to the point that my opponents always take non-scheme-marker schemes. Are you experiencing that a bit, or are you finding the redundancy useful for your models?

[Trample]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

@Trample, awesome!

The only thing I wonder is if it is overkill on schemes? Even with two crooligans + molly, I find I dominate most scheme marker schemes to the point that my opponents always take non-scheme-marker schemes. Are you experiencing that a bit, or are you finding the redundancy useful for your models?

When I started playing Molly I was usually doing so with a pair of Crooligans who would handle all of my schemes. Lately I've been really just ignoring the enemy beaters, working to kill off the smaller stuff, and scheme like crazy. It might be overkill. Heck, I would guess it is overkill, but I think that's what has been making it work. The anti -scheme capabilities aren't just market pickup. You're making it difficult for them to score hold up forces (you can really isolate archie and the rider, claim jump, vendetta (you only have a couple of models they can target), and claim jump (you can always put someone there). With that many models and reactivate you can be slowing them down on their side of the board as well. 

I'm thinking about shifting it around and trying Phillip and the Nanny when I get the nightmare crew (c'mon - ship already)! 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Trample damn, sorry to hear that. Mostly because I reallllly want to avoid picking up Night Terrors if I can do without them. They're so expensive!

[Mikes]

How're you deploying the crooligans? Are you From the Shadows-ing them, or using By You Side?

[Trample]

14 minutes ago, Mikes said:

How're you deploying the crooligans? Are you From the Shadows-ing them, or using By You Side?

Always by your side in Plant. Otherwise I'll often have 1-2 from the shadows. 

[Saduhem]

55 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Mostly because I reallllly want to avoid picking up Night Terrors if I can do without them

My MVPs in Forgotten :}

[LeperColony]

How is the rider in a Molly crew?  I've never played her before, but with the Nightmare version on its way (eventually, I presume), I'll need to try it out.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, Mikes said:

How're you deploying the crooligans? Are you From the Shadows-ing them, or using By You Side?

I have a few strategies with them.

1. Plant explosives, always have to start them in base to receive explosives.

2. If I'm wanting to draw enemies to one part of the map, I'll often start crooligans there with From the Shadows. That way if they don't come, I can just scheme. If they do come, I can teleport away and scheme elsewhere. This works well for Search the Ruins, or bluffing Outflank and the like.

3. By default, I put them in the base. I want them to interact from the get go (plus, they might be useful for dropping scheme markers by Molly).

[unti]

I have a game planned for today and I will be playing against misaki. The game will be plant explosive, so I announced Molly.

as I know my opponent, he will probably play at least two of the TT-trinity (fuhatsu, samurai and lone swordsman). They all have armor and healing or htk. 

I always have problems with those three, as they take to many activations to kill but ignoring them doesn't work either as they hit pretty hard with a long threatrange...

How would you try to counter those models in list building and on the table? Maybe you could help me...

[dannydb]

Either give them slow with molly or bring a student of steel out of keyword to take away armour 

[dope_danny]

So whats the deal with Archie right now? i've had a Molly crew years years, she was my second box in fact just when she released, but i never really thought about picking him up till now and outside of the Wyrd store -and i dont really want to deal with shipping time and import on a single miniature- hes either listed as unavailable or simply not on any of the go to sites i visit even as a 3rd edition rebox.

[Nikodemus]

25 minutes ago, dope_danny said:

So whats the deal with Archie right now? i've had a Molly crew years years, she was my second box in fact just when she released, but i never really thought about picking him up till now and outside of the Wyrd store -and i dont really want to deal with shipping time and import on a single miniature- hes either listed as unavailable or simply not on any of the go to sites i visit even as a 3rd edition rebox.

Plenty of models are still without a 3e release. Wyrd is doing a bunch every month but 2e had quite the catalogue. Even with all the box mergings this edition.

[Trample]

4 hours ago, unti said:

I have a game planned for today and I will be playing against misaki. The game will be plant explosive, so I announced Molly.

as I know my opponent, he will probably play at least two of the TT-trinity (fuhatsu, samurai and lone swordsman). They all have armor and healing or htk. 

I always have problems with those three, as they take to many activations to kill but ignoring them doesn't work either as they hit pretty hard with a long threatrange...

How would you try to counter those models in list building and on the table? Maybe you could help me...

While you can't ignore them, you can mitigate their impact without killing them. You can have enough models by bringing multiple Crooligans and Night Terrors that you can use them as speedbumps on the 1-2 that concern you most during the middle rounds. If you have enough activations to scheme otherwise you can get ahead of the curve on points and make it difficult for him to catch up. The Night Terrors have concealment (although both of the ranged models you mention come in on a positive flip) which will help a bit. Replenish these guys with the Forgotten Marshall. 

If you want to be more direct with them, someone already mentioned the Student of Steel. There is also McMourning, who will tear right through a Samurai. Don't forget about Molly though. Later in the turn she can easily do 3 irreducible damage per action to a Samurai. 

You can combine those. Charge a Night Terror into a Samurai as the first activation of round 2 or so and ping it for 1-2 points. It will die at some point, but hopefully require the Samurai's full activation to do it. If Molly is positioned right it may cause him another point of damage. Later in the turn get Molly in range (walk, dead rider, something) and get a couple of Disturbing attacks through for 6 damage. Likely dead Samurai.  Molly is really good at closing models out like this. 

 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

24 minutes ago, Trample said:

Charge a Night Terror into a Samurai as the first activation of round 2 or so and ping it for 1-2 points. It will die at some point, but hopefully require the Samurai's full activation to do it. If Molly is positioned right it may cause him another point of damage. Later in the turn get Molly in range (walk, dead rider, something) and get a couple of Disturbing attacks through for 6 damage. Likely dead Samurai.  Molly is really good at closing models out like this. 

And she's also dead next turn, as she's now most likely within the range of other enemy models with access to free focus (I don't want to sound pessimistic, but that's how my Planted Explosives game against Misaki looked like). I think it may be better to take advantage of terrain and of the fact that they can't do Planted Explosives just by shooting at you from distance.

[Trample]

1 minute ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

And she's also dead next turn, as she's now most likely within the range of other enemy models with access to free focus (I don't want to sound pessimistic, but that's how my Planted Explosives game against Misaki looked like). I think it may be better to take advantage of terrain and of the fact that they can't do Planted Explosives just by shooting at you from distance.

There are certainly risks. Your other models aren't going to be idle while Molly made her move and hopefully you're not leaving Molly in charge range of Ototo or something, Instead you'll have her 7" away from the Samurai and not on the front lines. Misaki and her crew are fast, so they may be able to get to her, but you're not going to make it easy!  If Molly attacked that Samurai at the bottom of turn two she should be able to activate and do something offensively or defensively at the top of turn three if you're worried about her. She can start by picking up 3x shadow markers and taking some of their options away! 

Molly is rarely in too much danger if she is back just a bit. They will usually need a couple of activations in range to really threaten her. Now, if it were Shenlong instead of Misaki I would be really worried! 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Most people don't like the model, but Philip and the Nanny has usually served me well for plant explosives. They are a great crooligan beacon and have tons of move.

Id pick up Archie asap if you can. He  really enhances plant explosives - with his mobility and crooligans telporting to him, you can get 2-3 explosives down pretty quick in awkward spots for your opponent.

Also, plant explosives is great for forcing the enemy to cross the centreline. Have Molly and some of her team waiting to rain destruction on them when they do. I usually have her with two rabble risers on defense, with Archie and the Necrotic Machine providing backup as possible reinforcements.

[Paddywhack]

12 hours ago, unti said:

as I know my opponent, he will probably play at least two of the TT-trinity (fuhatsu, samurai and lone swordsman). They all have armor and healing or htk. 

To tag on to what others have said, a Student of Steel might work, but two of those only have Armor +1. It will be target priority one though. In KW, the Rabble Risers can hold them up for a bit and piecemeal them with Blade Rush and Challenge. Bring the Forgotten Marshal to summon more after they die and/or if you can get him close enough, try to Pine Box them. 

Don't forget about the Night Terrors' Concealing bubble. That can help your models a bit. Doesn't help with the +to the Dmg flip if they have Focus, but if they don't hit in the first place it doesn't matter. 

If Focus is a big concern on them, maybe an out of KW Dead Doxy or Nurse. They both have Seduction to remove Focus and give Distracted (and Fuhatsu has a WP 3). Doxy can move him around a bit and the Nurse can heal. To stop Healing maybe an Onryo? They can also serve as your own fire base, though not as good admittedly, but they don't have to get close. They can also move through terrain and get to a good position more easily. More expensive, but also more killy, is a Goryo. They have Mark of Vengeance and can deal out more damage - nothing to get around armor, but more damage overall. They can both stop Fuhatsu/Samurai from Healing and the Goryo can lay out a lot of damage with just a little luck. 

I really miss the Shikome having armor piercing built-in. You can still get it, but you have to kill something first to attach the upgrade. They are super fast though - you could use it to hunt down Shang and try to get rid of her Arcane Reservoir. Not an easy give-me, but doable I think. Once it has the upgrade, start hunting Samurai.

You probably realize this, but Molly can gobble up Misaki's Shadow markers to draw 2 cards and limit where Misaki can Unbury. And do not forget Lethe's Caress. It was designed for models like Fuhatsu and Samurai that rely on taking the same action over and over. I know it'll only ping 1dmg after reduction, but everything helps whittle them down, especially if you shut down their healing. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Doxy can’t move Fuhatsu around. He has a rule that allows him to just not be moved by opposing effects.

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Doxy can’t move Fuhatsu around. He has a rule that allows him to just not be moved by opposing effects.

Nope, sorry meant to change that before hitting Submit. But she can move others around to mess with his shots. Biggest benefit is Seduction to get rid of Focus and add Distracted. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Wowza, just noticed Fuhatsu has a willpower of 3. Landing slows with 'one more question' from P&N or Molly should be super easy. Although if Molly is in range, I'd emphasise disturbing story. She could kill him in one activation if the stars aligned 😂

Anything with armour should learn to fear Molly. If Molly has a night terror with her, that's a double - to them trying to shoot her back as well.

 

[unti]

Hmm, I am kind of frustrated, I got destroyed and called the game at the end of turn 2.

My crooligans were onehits for his guys, the Punkzombies got shot down from fuhatsu and Archie was killed in one activation from the lone swordsman...

Yes, he had nice flips and I started surrounded by severe terrain, but it just felt (again) like I can't kill anything while not surviving the first activations...

Enough of that bad attitude for today... 😃

[Daysleeper]

1 hour ago, unti said:

Hmm, I am kind of frustrated, I got destroyed and called the game at the end of turn 2.

My crooligans were onehits for his guys, the Punkzombies got shot down from fuhatsu and Archie was killed in one activation from the lone swordsman...

Yes, he had nice flips and I started surrounded by severe terrain, but it just felt (again) like I can't kill anything while not surviving the first activations...

Enough of that bad attitude for today... 😃

I hate games like that so much. I admittedly get salty and that gamenight is ruined.

[Paddywhack]

Sorry. TTs are tough to face. A lot of great versatile models. I'm really annoyed they put Izamu there instead of in Ressurs. They have enough big guys and we could have used another one. 

When you're not so annoyed, care to post the lists used? And are you using enough terrain? Without it that big guns can get ridiculous.

[unti]

Sure, I played 

Molly 

Necrotic machine

Archie

Philip

Forgotten Marshall

2x rabble riser

2x crooligan

 

His crew

Misaki

Shang

Torakage

Crime boss

Tanuki

Lone swordsman

Fuhatsu

Yasunori

 

My plan was to plant the bombs early with my crooligans and score after that detonate the charges with them. One scheme marker was already in the right spot but sadly the crooligans just evaporated. Second scheme I chose vendetta with the forgotten Marshall on a crime boss (I scored 1 VP from that).

On the terrain part I think the opposite was the problem... We had wedge deployment, on one side I had to cross a river and a wood to get to the other half of the table, and the other side was only a river to cross but not very much cover/concealment to hide behind. So fuhatsu stood in the middle of the board, score claim jump and shoot...

I think the game just took a bad turn, and the way we play showed it's problems. We choose s&s, faction and master before we meet, and build the board when we meet, most of the time we have already finished our list at this time. The board had a lot of severe and my deployment boxed me completely in. I should have changed my crew and add some flying/unimpeded models eg rider, night terrors...