Molly - share your lists

[Mikes]

With the Molly nightmare crew I'm inspired to jump in and grab a load of other undead pirate models for a fully themed crew. But other that the desire to paint leChuck, i have zero idea how to build a molly list. What do people who play her usually take?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Ther was a fairly decent rundown on Molly on Third Floor Wars.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Welcome to Molly! Forgotten is an awesome keyword, and you'll need to make a few decisions about your crew:

Overall recommendation:

Buy the Pirate crew box + Archie (if you're after the pirate theme). From there, play a few practice games, and then make some decisions about your crew. At a minimum for full games, you'll need pirate box + Archie + a scheme runner box. Some decisions you'll face:

Archie

Do you take Archie with a hat, or do you take Archie without a hat? Given you want to go pirate theme, I recommend the hat. You always take Archie.

Other beaters

The consensus seems to be that you want at least one other beater, sometimes more (such as in Reckoning). Most people on the forum favour the Rogue Necromancy. Personally I prefer 2x rabble risers. Making full use of constructive criticisms and the activation advantage is key to the crew, IMO, and it is hard to do that in a useful way without rabble risers.

The pirate box comes with rabble risers, so I suggest you try this version first if you're buying them anyway.

Other beater options include the Dead Rider, Manos, and recently I've become very keen to try a Grave Golem + Grave Digger (but this is something few others are sold on so far).

Note I'm a bit biased against the Rogue Necromancy as I don't want to spend ~$45NZ on a beater that is generally inferior to Archie (who is half the cost).

Scheme runners

You need some scheme runners, so you can pick up either crooligans or night terrors (or both). Crooligans rely heavily on positioning of your non-minions, while night terrors rely on you making them discard cards to move (such as using Molly's constructive criticism to give them a discard + an extra activation). If you have a rabble riser crew, you already have a way to use Molly's constructive criticism usefully. If you don't want to use rabble risers, I imagine Night Terrors become a nice fit for the crew.

I use rabble risers/crooligans, and there's been very few games where I thought "I'd rather have night terrors than crooligans this game." Also note that crooligans need non-minion forgotten to teleport to, so if you have a crew that uses lots of versatile/OOK, crooligans get weaker. Overall, crooligans are the best fit for me (because I use rabble risers and have plenty of models for them to teleport to), but be mindful of whether they fit YOUR crew.

Also note you almost never set up crooligans using 'from the shadows.' Losing the early interact is too painful, and they can already teleport wherever they need to go with 'by your side.' Crooligans often focus and/or drop a scheme marker when they're not doing anything specific, and then teleport when needed (not all on the same turn, or your hand suffers).

Other models

Philip and the Nanny is widely condemned on the (beta) forums, but not many people have tested them after the launch buff (+ to flips on the charge). However, I find them to be an extremely strong model in plant explosives and henchmen hardcore, even before the buff. Your mileage may vary - almost everyone agrees P&N isn't a great model. It's definitely a bit useless in smaller soulstone games (outside of HH), and is not a good fit for all strategies. However, I find a mobile, durable model that dishes out tons of slows and acts as a beacon for crooligans has some uses.

Forgotten Marshal is an enforcer summoner, meaning you can't use soulstones to get your suit for the flip. As such, I think most people consider it pretty sub-par at summoning. And in a crew where you could just hire Kirai as a second master, it makes FM an especially questionable choice. However, people often don't talk about the Marshal's shooting ability, which is something I occasionally think "I really wish I had a forgotten marshal for its shooting ability." Consider the model as an entire package when eyeing it up, but again, I think most people are not very fond of the FM.

Some sample lists:

Here are some sample lists I've used. Note this is not fully optimal, as I don't own all the models, and some of this is theorycraft. I also don't own out of keyword models, which would sometimes be hugely useful. Also, I often play less than 50 soulstones, so not fully certain on all of these. I also don't account for schemes, which always shift things a bit.

Plant explosives - Strong fit for the keyword

Molly Squidpiddge
Necrotic Machine
Philip and the Nanny
Archie
Rabble Riser x2
Crooligan x3
9 soulstones on upgrades and cache.

Here, the bombs go on three crooligans, archie, & P&N. With archie and P&N trying to cross the centreline, and sometimes the necrotic machine, you have plenty of options for teleporting in crooligans to drop their bombs. I generally use Molly and the rabble risers to slow down the enemy crew, and sometimes the machine hangs back to assist them. After crooligans drop off their bombs, they can teleport back and steal enemy bombs and run off with them.

Corrupted Idols - Strong fit for the keyword

Molly Squidpiddge
Necrotic Machine
Archie w/ Grave Spirit's Touch
Crooligan w/ Grave Spirit's Touch
Crooligan
Rabble Riser x2
Rogue Necromancy (Or P&N)
7 stones for other upgrades/models/cache

Archie and the Crooligan with GST are the primary movers of corrupted idols. Crooligan number 2 swaps between dropping scheme markers for Molly to eat and getting idols when other models can't. Molly uses 'lost knowledge' and 'The Gorgon's Influence' to draw as many cards as possible; the objective is to get the cards you need to cheat on initiative to place idols where you need to.

You can drown most crews in card advantage and control placement of the idols. From there, winning is simply a matter of capitalising on that advantage and defending yourself where necessary (thus the risers + RN).

Reckoning - Decent fit for the keyword

Molly Squidpiddge
Necrotic Machine
Archie
Dr. McMourning/Rogue Necromancy
Grave Golem
Gravedigger
Night Terror/Crooligan
5+ stones for upgrades/cache.

This list basically aims to make it extremely hard to score reckoning points (Archie can be hard to kill if he doesn't want to be caught, masters are durable, grave golem can't die, etc). I've not had a chance to filed it yet (as I'm missing 3 of the models), but it seems like a pretty solid list. The night terror/crooligan/grave digger are there to assist with scheming - might need more, depending on how hard the schemes are to get. Note that if the scheme is 'dig their graves,' you are in a very solid position to score both points on it easily.

Note there's a big difference between 2 and 3 small models (2 makes it hard to score the first two reckoning points off them), and a big difference between 5 and 6 (because of the third point). Try to structure the crew to make it awkward to score the 2nd or 3rd point without killing a master. For this crew, I make it awkward by having the scheme runners hide in awkward places - they're both very mobile, and if you pick the right schemes, they don't need to go anywhere dangerous.

That's in theory, anyway. More realistically, here is what I currently run for Reckoning:

Molly Squidpiddge
Necrotic Machine
Archie
Philip and the Nanny (or borrow Rogue Necromancy)
Rabble Riser x3
Crooligan x2
7 stones for upgrades/cache

This is what I have the models for, and find it can be pretty good. The rabble risers and Archie give quite a bit of killing power, and crooligans make surprisingly good assassins. I stay pretty scheme focused for scoring/denying points, and dance around the enemy a bit to avoid getting my crew smashed too hard (since they're all pretty fragile, even Archie). P&N really helps with dishing out slows, but the RN is far superior for reckoning when possible.

Etc.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea! I didn't list anything for Turf War, but I'm not very good at that one with molly yet. I wouldn't say there's any strategies Molly is awful at (unlike some keywords), and she is truly fantastic at explosives & idols IMO.

I hope this helps! Take my opinions with a grain of salt, though. As I said, a lot of the forums disagree with some of my model analysis (I overvalue P&N and Rabble Risers compared to most of the forums, and undervalue Rogue Necromancy/other 10SS+ beaters).

[Saduhem]

You'll find some dissenting voices on the matter especially on the following two models: Night Terrors and Philip and The Nanny.

I personally, love both, and can't bring myself to play a game without the former. The combination of the two allows Philip and The Nanny to move across the board multiple times per turn, through any models, all outside of its own activation. That leaves you with a chatty model that can tarpit without ever losing Manipulative. From range, you can get stacking negative penalties from engagement, concealment, and Manipulative. Close range, enemy models either have to concentrate and take damage from Philip and the Nanny, or attack multiple times and take damage from Molly. On top of this, you're doubling the amount of Distracted Molly is handing out which, again, stack with the perma-manipulative and Molly's serene countenance. At the end of the turn, you get an additional chance to re-position due to Deadly Pursuit, either tarpitting more or setting up an anchor for the Crooligans.

Lists are going to vary depending on what you need, but some staples are:

You're always going to hire the Forgotten Marshal. You can produce an ultra quick scheme runner by summoning a Night terror, discarding a card to heal it, and getting the extra push from Fading (Shadow). So you can technically walk twice with the Marhsal, then summon something, push it up 5 inches, and all this before the Night Terror activates. Outside of that, you're very likely summoning Rabble Risers every chance you get. The necrotic machine can keep up with the Marshal, so that you'll walk+walk+summon with the Marshal, and walk+walk+heal the newly summoned model with the totem. I no longer use this as an auto-take, but you really want to consider putting The Whisper on the Marshal so that you can line up either a summon on a high  or a critical strike on a high

You're probably going to need a beater of some sort. I generally don't hire more than 1 Rabble Riser if any, counting on setting up a turn 1 summon from the Marshal instead (Use Blade Rush at every chance you get. It bypasses incorporeal!). Then it's a choice between Archie and the Rogue Necromancy. Archie is a lot more mobile but doesn't benefit from the focused Molly hands out. Whenever you're against any type of damage mitigation or serene countenance, Archie is just going to have to chase scheme runners or do scheme running himself. Never, ever try to kill Hinamatsu with Archie. That said, he's going to be exactly where you want him to be, like most of Molly's crew. 
The Rogue Necromancy, in my games, tends to explode quite fast, but it's my go to against damage mitigation and serene countenance. Due to Molly, he's going to have double positive flips to the attack (1 built in from savage bite, 1 from premonition). While pouncing strike seems (and is) great, puncture is one of the best triggers on an attack this edition. You'll often have to attack something that has a combination of terrifying, manipulative, serene countenance, armor, incorporeal, vengeance, a defensive trigger, butterfly jump and so on. Doing a single big attack pays off a heck of a lot more and is much more resource efficient ( especially in a crew where you discard a lot of cards). Finally, his projectile vomit lets you use him as a turret with the built-in  for Necrotic Decay. That's 3 damage on a non-projectile attack that targets Mv and can spread Distracted and Poison. You're taking 2 damage but you're getting 1 back from Perverse Metabolism  and Fading (Toxicity). TL;DR for this section: Archie if you want to play safe, Rogue Necro if you want big damage. 
I've also had some success with the Rider, especially since it lets Molly move around without having to use her own actions.
 

At this point I hire Philip and The Nanny for the reasons mentioned above. I love it, some hate it, try and decide :} Just know that this model is all about capitalizing on the discards from Molly, the Night Terrors, and occasionally Archie for the healing. 

Forgotten have two of the best scheme runner minions in the faction. I prefer the Night terrors slightly more because I can really get them across the board turn 1 and drop a marker if I really want to. Crooligans are more late game stars and can pull points out of nowhere due to their By Your Side, but I rarely get anything out of From the Shadows as that prevents turn 1 interactions. You can always Move Archie/Philip far ahead turn 1 and have the Crooligan jump to them. It's not a bad idea to hire a combination of Night Terrors/Crooligans.

Anyway, it's hard to have a cookie cutter list in this Keyword but you'll often have the following as a skeleton:

Molly 
Necrotic Machine
Forgotten Marshal + The Whisper 9
Archie/Rogue Necromancy + The Whisper 11/12
Philip and The Nanny + Grave Spirit's Touch 10 (You can replace with Carrion Emissary/Mortimer/Sloth if you don't like the model)
Rabble Riser 6
Night Terror/Crooligan 4/5
Night Terror/Crooligan 4/5

Cache 4-6

Anyway, for your first few games, I'd practice using the Fading synergies. Remember that with Premonition and Constructive Criticism you can potentially give out 12 inches of movement to a Night Terror and Philip and The Nanny (24 Total) with only 2 discarded cards due to Rambling Man. Accomplice from the Necrotic Machine can also trigger Fading in a pinch, and Archie can heal Philip and the Nanny. Give out distracted through Rambling Man + Fading (Memories) to keep Philip and Molly alive, as stacking negatives is really good this edition and getting through that usually costs your opponent stones. 

 

 

[Mikes]

Holy information dump batman!  That's awesome, thank you!

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing I think I should emphasise more: the activation advantage provided by constructive criticism:

Consider a situation where you and an opponent both have the same number of models (say 8), and you are able to win initiative and force them to go first on turn 1.

Their turn 1 looks like this:

• Activate 8 models

Your turn 1 looks like this:

• Activate 2 models
• Activate Molly, constructive criticism twice (activate fading twice), possibly use bonus action for more fading (but unlikely that you'll have that many cards). Miscellaneous action.
• Activate 2 models again (opponent now activates sixth model).
• Activated 2 more models (opponent now activates final model).
• Activate 3 models after you opponent has fully activated!!

This is hugely potent for a few reasons.

One, the extra activations and fading triggers are useful. For instance, I often move rabble risers 5", then focus for each of their two activations on turn 1. This means they end turn 1 with 3-4 focus and 10" of move, meaning they're still with the crew and not too far in a dangerous spot on their own, and have enough focus to last the game. Night Terrors can potentially move ~32" in turn 1 (and they can take philip & the nanny!).

But even more important than the direct buff to the recipient of constructive criticism IMO is that last bullet point: activating 2-3 models after your opponent has fully finished!  A lot of the crew is quite squishy if they move and then the opponent gets to attack them the same turn. Archie relies on healing up each turn, Philip and the Nanny relies on manipulative, etc. Getting to send Archie in with your opponent having no opportunity to counterattack until the next turn is very potent. It just opens up so many positioning possibilities for turns 1 and sometimes 2 (when you generally want to take the last activation).

IMO, this interaction is critical to understanding why you need at least one minion type that benefits from constructive criticism. Looks like Saduhem above prefers night terrors, while I prefer rabble risers. Of course, the true answer is probably that you want both, as some will be better for some matchups. If not for CC, I'd consider rabble risers a bit subpar.

[Mikes]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Some decisions you'll face:

Archie

Do you take Archie with a hat, or do you take Archie without a hat? Given you want to go pirate theme, I recommend the hat. You always take Archie.

lol, nnoted. Although, given the theme, I was thinking of adapting a Warmachine Mercenary pirate-y warcjack for Archie and really go for the pirate / Bioshock theme. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Mikes said:

lol, nnoted. Although, given the theme, I was thinking of adapting a Warmachine Mercenary pirate-y warcjack for Archie and really go for the pirate / Bioshock theme. 

Note that won't be tournament legal if it doesn't meet the Wyrd requirements (from memory, only 1/3 of the model can come from other companies?), but I can't imagine your local group would be fussed!

[Mikes]

Yeah, this is going to be a passion project. I just want an undead pirate crew  If i hit a tournament I'll take something I have more models for.

[Trample]

5 hours ago, Mikes said:

Yeah, this is going to be a passion project. I just want an undead pirate crew  If i hit a tournament I'll take something I have more models for.

Just double checking that you've seen the Gen Con crew and Archie's hat: https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2019/7/10/waldos-weekly-curse-of-the-dead-tide. It is an undead pirate crew! A great time to be playing Ressers! 

[Trample]

Oh wait, you said so in your original post! I'm sorry, you've got it! 

I suppose you just want your Archie to be even more piratey, which is just fine. Rather than grab a model from another company you could probably throw a parrot on his shoulder and give him a pegleg without too much trouble to keep him tournament legal. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

8 hours ago, Mikes said:

lol, nnoted. Although, given the theme, I was thinking of adapting a Warmachine Mercenary pirate-y warcjack for Archie and really go for the pirate / Bioshock theme. 

come on, Archie has a tentacle on his arm. A TENTACLE. he's made for being a pirate!

p.s. you can convert one of his fists into a hook!

[explorator]

I don't have a model for P&N, so I run Ausura Rotten with Molly; Archie can throw Mindless Zombies because they count as corpse markers, and Asura can summon them quite easily. Mindless Zombies is Asuras LOS ignore insignificant, and can get an Action via Re-Animate.

[Figgyfigs]

Commenting just so I can come back to this thread later. So much great advice here.

[Mikes]

10 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

come on, Archie has a tentacle on his arm. A TENTACLE. he's made for being a pirate!

p.s. you can convert one of his fists into a hook!

I've never been a fan of the Archie model though. And I think the WM Freeboter fits in well with the ethetic.

 

 

I'm gonna give it a pirate flag,

[Paddywhack]

That was always my favorite jack, even if it wasn't great on the table. Maybe an Alt Archie will be down the road somewhere...

[Trample]

Last night I ran Molly with machine, archie, crooligan, 2x rabble risers, and Seamus against Kaeris in reckoning. I really wanted to see how Seamus did as a second master in reckoning to pick off a key model or two at the right times. It didn't work out that way since I lost my Crooligan right away. Seamus had to help score search the ruins and breakthrough, which he did. He only killed one model in the game but did cause Kaeris to burn through a lot of stones. Seamus is fun though and on the right board I think he could be fantastic. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

46 minutes ago, Trample said:

Last night I ran Molly with machine, archie, crooligan, 2x rabble risers, and Seamus against Kaeris in reckoning. I really wanted to see how Seamus did as a second master in reckoning to pick off a key model or two at the right times. It didn't work out that way since I lost my Crooligan right away. Seamus had to help score search the ruins and breakthrough, which he did. He only killed one model in the game but did cause Kaeris to burn through a lot of stones. Seamus is fun though and on the right board I think he could be fantastic. 

I'm not a fan of 2 masters lists if neither of them is a summoner, but I was fancying about fielding Molly as a second master with Seamus instead of Nurse and Archie, not only because she can cover the role of the Nurse (free focus and card draw), but also because she can actually get some value from Scarlet Temptations.

[dannydb]

I quite like a list of molly, totem, archie, sloth, rouge necro, Sebastian and 2 crooligans. Archie and rouge necro are main beaters which you keep healed up with sloth for archie (as he can't get slow from free action) and Sebastian to heal necro (posion shenanigans) 

 

The crooligans can then just do your scheam running 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, dannydb said:

I quite like a list of molly, totem, archie, sloth, rouge necro, Sebastian and 2 crooligans. Archie and rouge necro are main beaters which you keep healed up with sloth for archie (as he can't get slow from free action) and Sebastian to heal necro (posion shenanigans) 

 

The crooligans can then just do your scheam running 

Neat list!

 

What do you use Molly's AP for? And have you experimented with same list/different master? I wonder how McMourning would fare there.

[nomoredroids]

My last list was into Reckoning with Rogue Necro, 2x Crooligans, Archie, Rabble Riser w/ GST, P&N. Gave RR and Rogue Necro w/ GST.  Got Poison up to +8 or something stupid on Rogue Necro. Usually I take Forgotten Marshal but I was playing into Wizz-Bang on Reckoning...not a great idea. P&N gave my opponent a headache, and Archie got Red Jokered and taken down before he could do anything. Crooligans kept jumping around and removing schemes, which Wizz-Bang dislikes, so they didn't last long. They can also hand out a surprising amount of damage. Thought the Rabble Riser with GST would make them survive a bit longer paired with Molly's reactivation, but he just ended up getting blasted by shockwaves from Wong. It was an OK list. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Played some more games with Philip & the Nanny, and I'm definitely sold on the model.

Anytime you need a tarpit P&N fits the bill.

My opinions:

Plant explosives is pretty much an auto take for P&N.

Claim Jump, Harness the Leyline, and any other scheme that involves the centre makes me likely to take P&N.

Turf War also makes me at least consider P&N, and a little bit the same for corrupted idols. Either of these strategies with one of the above schemes basically makes me autotake P&N.

That is just about 55% of games where I auto take P&N, and I sometimes might for other combinations as well.

[dannydb]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:32 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Neat list!

 

What do you use Molly's AP for? And have you experimented with same list/different master? I wonder how McMourning would fare there.

I'n the early turns drawing cards handing out focus, reactivating crooligans so archie and the necro can go as late as possible and going from there 

 

Later turns mostly scheming and killing stuff 

[Kisada]

Been tooling around with Molly lately since the nightmare announcement and having my original metal Molly that never got much use.

So far I’ve found that the Forgotten Marshal is fantastic, maybe a bit unreliable summoning but he can double move, spit out a rabble riser, give it focused, and next activation the rabble can charge and flurry for another focused attack. Might take a hefty card investment but it’s very strong. His shooting/cost also makes him feel very good at achieving vendetta.

Also finding myself really digging Toshiro as a model to bring with this crew, ashigaru can pair with Night Terrors for a nice protective front and his minion bonuses and ability to pass out some focus/heal is welcomed.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 hours ago, Kisada said:

Been tooling around with Molly lately since the nightmare announcement and having my original metal Molly that never got much use.

So far I’ve found that the Forgotten Marshal is fantastic, maybe a bit unreliable summoning but he can double move, spit out a rabble riser, give it focused, and next activation the rabble can charge and flurry for another focused attack. Might take a hefty card investment but it’s very strong. His shooting/cost also makes him feel very good at achieving vendetta.

Also finding myself really digging Toshiro as a model to bring with this crew, ashigaru can pair with Night Terrors for a nice protective front and his minion bonuses and ability to pass out some focus/heal is welcomed.

 

I've been wanting to test Toshiro out, and now feel even more inclined. Thanks!