Ways to challenge high level Fated

[The13Fates]

Following the advice from the Core book, I've been running through my current homebrew campaign with each session dedicated to a Fated's destiny step and giving each player 1 EXP at the end of each.

12+ sessions with 4 players and 3 completed Destiny Steps each, the players are starting their new pursuits after reaching the top of their first ones, pouring EXP into skills and triggers and upping their aspects (with the completed destiny steps). This has made combat... trivial. Speaking with my players, they still want combat but with auto-triggers, bonus attacks, Trick actions stacking with Impose actions, fully modded weapons etc it's clearly not a challenge anymore and as a Fatemaster, a drag chute to session time for what is a foregone conclusion.

What I want to ask is how do I make combat interesting for both me and high-leveled them? Are there any NPC combos that aren't so easily solved with rush tactics? I will point out that I want to avoid "Sniper nest atop a minefield" type situations, they aren't fun for anyone.

[NobbyTheKing]

I've been having the same problem. Most of my fated haven't really specialised in combat stuff, which  is good, but we have one guy who is essentially just "the concept of punching given form". I'm going to start wrecking him by making most of the opponents nephelim with black blood, or hitting him with stuff that targets willpower. I've also started making him "haunted" by all the people he's butchered, so he'll start getting shoved around by forces unseen mid fight :-D. On the plus side, I think he'll find it funny, if it doesn't go down well I'll course correct. Either way it'll be interesting.

I'd be interested to see what anyone else suggests.

[The13Fates]

55 minutes ago, NobbyTheKing said:

but we have one guy who is essentially just "the concept of punching given form".

Same. Although he's known as "The Lord of Lightning" in our group, Max Speed, Martial Arts and Deceive with a completed Criminal Pursuit with a dip into Torakage...

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

My best advice is to give encounters that their treasure and skills really can’t help with, like flying enemies for a melee character but some conveniently placed cover and guns to make the encounter possible 

[ezramantis]

Would adding objectives to the combats help? Sure they can kill all the mooks in the factory, but can they shut down the doomsday device the mooks are protecting in time WHILE fighting mooks? They can defend themselves but can they protect the high profile dignitary they've been hired to escort?

How about environmental Hazards? Fighting down a ladder that descends into the mouth of an active geyser, the only way into the crypt they are trying to access, could see them fighting with one hand while making strength/balance checks to keep from falling. Add to that checks to avoid taking negatives from the heat and an ongoing challenge to reach the bottom before the next blast of superheated water. Swamps could slow their movement while having them fight off the effects of halucinogenic gasses. Icy conditions could cause them to fall prone. All environments that their assailants are immune to or just more prepared for.

[The13Fates]

13 hours ago, ezramantis said:

How about environmental Hazards?

Re-reading Into the Steam (turns out source books are more than Lore and Bestiaries, who would have guessed?)

I came across 'Personified Swarms' with examples given for Fire, Rats and an Angry Mob, this combined with Environmental/Activated Hazards has flipped my perception of combat on its head.

I'm thinking of a Smugglers Tunnel which has been poorly maintained and swimming with Rats and another creature, Swarms + Collapsing Building sounds like it might be a challenge, any more advice for spicing it up?

[LeperColony]

This is a side-effect of the fixed TN system.  If you want to make fights more dramatic, you can always use opposed flipping.  It was an optional rule in 1st edition.

[The13Fates]

I've given NPCs a +1 (& rare +2s) in order to give them a shot at damage and defense, and although I haven't tested it, I can foresee Combat becoming much longer if I'm fiddling with my own FM fate deck and fate points/control hand.

High stats aren't necessarily the primary problem, I've had to learn when NPCs are out of the picture long before a 22+ Severe Critical for example.

What I'm asking for in this thread is ways to challenge my players further than "big dude with little dudes in a dense warehouse"; ways to have my NPCs combo off each other or certain NPC paired combos like in the wargame (this guy poisons, this other guy has more options because of the poison effect etc...)

[LeperColony]

11 hours ago, The13Fates said:

I've given NPCs a +1 (& rare +2s) in order to give them a shot at damage and defense, and although I haven't tested it, I can foresee Combat becoming much longer if I'm fiddling with my own FM fate deck and fate points/control hand.

It actually takes more or less the same amount of time.  There's other threads that talk about the numbers behind it, but where it helps with making combat a little more challenging for the fated is that it adds an element of narrative uncertainty that doesn't exist with known, fixed TNs.

11 hours ago, The13Fates said:

What I'm asking for in this thread is ways to challenge my players further than "big dude with little dudes in a dense warehouse"; ways to have my NPCs combo off each other or certain NPC paired combos like in the wargame (this guy poisons, this other guy has more options because of the poison effect etc...)

Sure, using rules that players don't encounter as often will help shake things up.  So will encounters where the outcome is inevitable but the means matter.  For instance, a combat that can't be "won" in the traditional sense (like an endless horde of zombies), but the players can decide how long to stay and how many villagers to save.

Also, taking away some of their toys so the fated have to find other solutions in the fight.