Pandora - Self Loathing

[inbrain]

Please help me figure out how 'Self Loathing' ability of Pandora 3E works. Precisely:

1. Should I spend AP + Duel enemy twice: once for Wp duel for Self-Loathing and then to attack him with his own Action

2. If I borrow melee action should I be in its range to use it on enemy? 

3. If I borrow Bonus action will it count towards my bonus action limit? 

4. My English knowledge stops me from proper understanding of 'Crushed Ego' trigger: does it mean I need to have both suites 'Mask' to trigger it and another suite relevant for triggers on Action itself (which means I always have to spend a soulstone to achieve it) or maybe it means I can use any trigger with just declaring a mask for Crushed Ego (without actually having extra suites for the trigger in question)?

[trikk]

8 minutes ago, inbrain said:

Please help me figure out how 'Self Loathing' ability of Pandora 3E works. Precisely:

1. Should I spend AP + Duel enemy twice: once for Wp duel for Self-Loathing and then to attack him with his own Action

2. If I borrow melee action should I be in its range to use it on enemy? 

3. If I borrow Bonus action will it count towards my bonus action limit? 

4. My English knowledge stops me from proper understanding of 'Crushed Ego' trigger: does it mean I need to have both suites 'Mask' to trigger it and another suite relevant for triggers on Action itself (which means I always have to spend a soulstone to achieve it) or maybe it means I can use any trigger with just declaring a mask for Crushed Ego (without actually having extra suites for the trigger in question)?

1, 2, 3:

You just copy the effect and cost, so everything that happens when the action is successful. For example in Self Loathing it starts at: "Choose one of the targets..."

4: you can select one trigger from the selected action that the enemy has in his duek total. So if You flipped a mask and I flipped a ram and I have an attack with Critical Strike, you can use  Critical  Strike.

[inbrain]

@trikk thank you!

[Eylander]

On 7/6/2019 at 3:25 AM, inbrain said:

Please help me figure out how 'Self Loathing' ability of Pandora 3E works. Precisely:

1. Should I spend AP + Duel enemy twice: once for Wp duel for Self-Loathing and then to attack him with his own Action

2. If I borrow melee action should I be in its range to use it on enemy? 

3. If I borrow Bonus action will it count towards my bonus action limit? 

4. My English knowledge stops me from proper understanding of 'Crushed Ego' trigger: does it mean I need to have both suites 'Mask' to trigger it and another suite relevant for triggers on Action itself (which means I always have to spend a soulstone to achieve it) or maybe it means I can use any trigger with just declaring a mask for Crushed Ego (without actually having extra suites for the trigger in question)?

Sorry to be so dense, but I'm assuming that Pandora can take an opponent's melee action against them from 10" away.  Please let me know if this is incorrect!

[Adran]

42 minutes ago, Eylander said:

Sorry to be so dense, but I'm assuming that Pandora can take an opponent's melee action against them from 10" away.  Please let me know if this is incorrect!

Pandora can take self loathing and then choose to apply the effects of a melee action against the target. It's not quite the same as taking the melee action against them at range 10, but it's close. 

[Eylander]

37 minutes ago, Adran said:

Pandora can take self loathing and then choose to apply the effects of a melee action against the target. It's not quite the same as taking the melee action against them at range 10, but it's close. 

Okay, gotcha - thanks!

[solkan]

6 hours ago, Eylander said:

Sorry to be so dense, but I'm assuming that Pandora can take an opponent's melee action against them from 10" away.  Please let me know if this is incorrect!

 

5 hours ago, Adran said:

Pandora can take self loathing and then choose to apply the effects of a melee action against the target. It's not quite the same as taking the melee action against them at range 10, but it's close. 

The list of differences gets pretty significant:

• You don't get any of the triggers unless you get the Crushed Ego trigger.*
• You use the stat line for Self Loathing instead of the stat (with those nice built in fate modifiers) for the selected action.
• If the chosen action has a "Once per" restriction, Self Loathing gains that restriction.

Two good illustrations:

1.  Pandora uses Self Loathing on a Death Marshal, and chooses Pine Box.  The action is resolved at 6 v. Wp.  To have access to Purification or Leeching Strength trigger effects you have to go through the Crushed Ego trigger, and the "Enemy only" restriction doesn't cause a problem because that was gained by an action on Pandora's card.  (Otherwise, Self Loathing would have to say to ignore some of action's restrictions to allow the Death Marshal to use Pine Box on itself.)

2.  Pandora uses Self Loathing on a Hoarcat, and chooses Claws.  The action is resolved at 6 v. Wp.  When she the duel, the only effect is "Target suffers 1/2/4 damage."  To pull off the ultimate trick of making the hoarcat devour itself (technically Pandora devouring the hoarcat, but still fulfilling), you need the Crushed Ego trigger's  and a Crow (so probably need to commit a soulstone to the duel).*  That trick would be much easier to do if you were just taking the action against the model.

* I assume Crushed Ego means that you gain the effects of one matching trigger with the appropriate timing.

Edit:  I misread Crushed Ego.  The target’s duel total determines the effect if Pandora gets Crushed Ego.  So it’ll be much more of a lucky break for Pandora, not something to stone for.

 

[Mycellanious]

3 hours ago, solkan said:

 

The list of differences gets pretty significant:

• You don't get any of the triggers unless you get the Crushed Ego trigger.*
• You use the stat line for Self Loathing instead of the stat (with those nice built in fate modifiers) for the selected action.
• If the chosen action has a "Once per" restriction, Self Loathing gains that restriction.

Two good illustrations:

1.  Pandora uses Self Loathing on a Death Marshal, and chooses Pine Box.  The action is resolved at 6 v. Wp.  To have access to Purification or Leeching Strength trigger effects you have to go through the Crushed Ego trigger, and the "Enemy only" restriction doesn't cause a problem because that was gained by an action on Pandora's card.  (Otherwise, Self Loathing would have to say to ignore some of action's restrictions to allow the Death Marshal to use Pine Box on itself.)

2.  Pandora uses Self Loathing on a Hoarcat, and chooses Claws.  The action is resolved at 6 v. Wp.  When she the duel, the only effect is "Target suffers 1/2/4 damage."  To pull off the ultimate trick of making the hoarcat devour itself (technically Pandora devouring the hoarcat, but still fulfilling), you need the Crushed Ego trigger's  and a Crow (so probably need to commit a soulstone to the duel).*  That trick would be much easier to do if you were just taking the action against the model.

* I assume Crushed Ego means that you gain the effects of one matching trigger with the appropriate timing.

 

 I think Crushed Ego uses the suit from the opposing model's duel total. So Pandora cant stone for a Crow to declare the Hoarcats Devour, the Hoarcat would have to flip a crow or be auto-suited for it

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

 I think Crushed Ego uses the suit from the opposing model's duel total. So Pandora cant stone for a Crow to declare the Hoarcats Devour, the Hoarcat would have to flip a crow or be auto-suited for it

Ah, you’re right.  I misread that part.  As rare as Df suits are, I’m not sure if there are any Wp auto-suits at the moment.

But, yeah, the Hoarcat won’t get devoured unless the Hoarcat has the crow.

 

[Eylander]

8 hours ago, solkan said:

Two good illustrations:

 

I appreciate the specifics, Solkan!  That was what I thought was legal, but I didn't want to be a dirty cheater 😁