NeilH Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Why haven't new models such as agent 46, void hunters, aversion etc got cards in the release? Have I missed something? Does this mean they won't be in the faction boxes either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperialdwarf Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Kitty Dumont missing too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 The Faction boxes have been known for a while to not contain the cards for new models. They are there to convert your previously owned models to M3. I had expected the files released now to contain all the models, (other wise I dread the questions in 6 months time as to why some cards aren't electronic) but perhaps that is planned for later. I would be slightly surprised if this was the permanent plan for electronic distribution of the cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Adran said: The Faction boxes have been known for a while to not contain the cards for new models. They are there to convert your previously owned models to M3. I had expected the files released now to contain all the models, (other wise I dread the questions in 6 months time as to why some cards aren't electronic) but perhaps that is planned for later. I would be slightly surprised if this was the permanent plan for electronic distribution of the cards They will be updated when Faction books are out from what Wyrd said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilH Posted June 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Does this mean until then those models are illegal? Those who didn't play Beta will have no access to them currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Technically yes, but you can always agree to use the beta files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, NeilH said: Does this mean until then those models are illegal? Those who didn't play Beta will have no access to them currently. I would say it depends on how you define illegal. There aren't any models yet. The rules for them aren't yet official (And you can't obtain them at the moment, although many people will have beta versions of them). Their use with a beta file will be up to T.O.s until we get official rules for them (Which I doubt will be very long), or you and your opponent if its not at an event. I'm fairly sure you're not going to get arrested for putting agent 46 on the table. You're probably not even going to get Kyle sneak into your house and steal your proxys and beta files. Edit Even if we had the files you'd normally need T.O.s approval for your proxy model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilH Posted June 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Illegal in the sense of competitive play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, NeilH said: Illegal in the sense of competitive play. They are only illegal if the T.O bans them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Adran said: You're probably not even going to get Kyle sneak into your house and steal your proxys and beta files. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 27, 2019 Report Share Posted June 27, 2019 It's the Wyrd Police! Hand over your beta pdfs and proxies and nobody will get hurt! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4lt Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 I think the problem is they have just been banned from the biggest UK M3E event to date in the Scottish GT. That has caused an issue with quite a few masters becoming uncompetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, S4lt said: I think the problem is they have just been banned from the biggest UK M3E event to date in the Scottish GT. That has caused an issue with quite a few masters becoming uncompetitive. That's kind of a T.O. issue and a not Wyrd issue I do however agree that I don't understand why the limitation on the cards from Wyrd's side 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, S4lt said: I think the problem is they have just been banned from the biggest UK M3E event to date in the Scottish GT. That has caused an issue with quite a few masters becoming uncompetitive. There is a similar issue every year when the new books come out at Gencon, but aren't released until September officially. People who bought stuff as a pre-release at Gencon want to use their toys, where as people that haven't had a chance to see the rules for the models don't like to face them in a competitive environment. Events go both ways as to what they allow based on the T.O.s choice. Its worth pointing out that the Scotish GT is making up its own allowed rules, as they have banned 2nd masters as well. Its completely within the T.O.s remit to do this, and for the most balanced competitive event, banning rules that other people can't see yet makes some sense even if it means that some crews will struggle to be competitive, you will know what you can't use before you show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4lt Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, trikk said: That's kind of a T.O. issue and a not Wyrd issue I do however agree that I don't understand why the limitation on the cards from Wyrd's side It's an issue that masters now have rules but aren't balanced competitively because they rely on unreleased key word models. Unless they are having drastic changes i dont see why we couldn't at least get the model rules released digitally from a tournament perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, Adran said: Its worth pointing out that the Scotish GT is making up its own allowed rules, as they have banned 2nd masters as well. I hope this becomes the GG standard with a multi-master format as an alternative format. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, S4lt said: It's an issue that masters now have rules but aren't balanced competitively because they rely on unreleased key word models. Unless they are having drastic changes i dont see why we couldn't at least get the model rules released digitally from a tournament perspective. What tournament rules are you playing by? Gaining Grounds (2018 at least) has that statement in it that proxies are not permitted. If the unreleased models are absolutely necessary for game balance, that means that the only way you can satisfy that game balance is by immediately (or some time during the beta period) sitting down and constructing conversions or hand sculpting the missing models. Also think about the current state of the newest faction. At the moment the Explorer's Society faction has two masters, no henchmen, and no minions, so basically has two different keyword based crews. (Current McCabe Explorer's Society crew: McCabe, Luna, 3 Ruffians, Sidir, Cornelius Basse and Bernadette Basse and something like 9 or 10 SS. When Basse is leading, the known potential hiring pool is significantly larger.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4lt Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, solkan said: What tournament rules are you playing by? Gaining Grounds has that statement in it that proxies are not permitted. If the unreleased models are absolutely necessary for game balance, that means that the only way you can satisfy that game balance is by immediately (or some time during the beta period) sitting down and constructing conversions or hand sculpting the missing models. Also think about the current state of the newest faction. At the moment the Explorer's Society faction has two masters, no henchmen, and no minions, so basically has two different keyword based crews. (Current McCabe Explorer's Society crew: McCabe, Luna, 3 Ruffians, Sidir, Cornelius Basse and Bernadette Basse and something like 9 or 10 SS. When Basse is leading, the known potential hiring pool is significantly larger.). There is no GG document for M3E as far as I know. Generally tournaments in the UK have allowed proxies if the rules exist until the models come out. The problem is the rules are now released but many masters are missing models that are essential to how they play at a competitive level. Just a few examples. Nekima/Dashel - no totem Ressers/Guild/Neverborn - 1 master down on other factions Tara - a summoner who doesn't have her key summons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, S4lt said: There is no GG document for M3E as far as I know. Generally tournaments in the UK have allowed proxies if the rules exist until the models come out. The problem is the rules are now released but many masters are missing models that are essential to how they play at a competitive level. Just a few examples. Nekima/Dashel - no totem Ressers/Guild/Neverborn - 1 master down on other factions Tara - a summoner who doesn't have her key summons Ignoring all those problems. I'll be racking up to tournaments in the UK with Nekima and moded proxy pig and the last beta rules for the totem. Expect Zero real issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, S4lt said: There is no GG document for M3E as far as I know. Generally tournaments in the UK have allowed proxies if the rules exist until the models come out. The problem is the rules are now released but many masters are missing models that are essential to how they play at a competitive level. Actually your problem is the rules for the models aren't released. The Wyrd release schedule always means that some factions/players are going to struggle because they don't have the models yet. This time they don't have the rules or the model. I understand why the SGT organisers have done what they have, and if you had intended to play as one of the affected models then you at least have a month or so to change your mind (or learn to play only using the released models). Its their prerogative as TOs. Other TOs will set different rules. (Its also possible that McCabe is missing several keyword models that will come in the explorers guild, but because you don't know of those models yet you just will get on and cope with what he has. Or not use him). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4lt Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Adran said: Actually your problem is the rules for the models aren't released. Yes, but it amounts to the same thing and causes a wider issue at a competitive level. Any master that relies on unreleased models to work is at a disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, S4lt said: Yes, but it amounts to the same thing and causes a wider issue at a competitive level. Any master that relies on unreleased models to work is at a disadvantage. To you, who know what those unreleased rules are, it seems the same. To Joe Blogs, who didn't play in the Beta, its a big difference suddenly facing a model like Agent 46 or Melissa Kore in a game when he'd read up on everything since release and never saw rules for it, it doesn't seem like the same thing. You at least know what disadvantage you will be at because of your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, S4lt said: I think the problem is they have just been banned from the biggest UK M3E event to date in the Scottish GT. That has caused an issue with quite a few masters becoming uncompetitive. No it makes several key masters unplayable. Try running a Nekima without her totem. Bloody stupid situation made worse by stupid choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figgyfigs Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hard to understand why this is such an issue for so many of you. The "missing" models aren't out yet. You know they exist, because Wyrd was nice enough to let us beta-test the game. Otherwise, those models aren't yet part of the official game. If you simply must join a 3E tournament in the next few months, you'll just have to make do with one of the many, many masters whose full lineup is out. Lucius and Nekima can wait a few months. In the immortal words of Arnold in Kindergarten Cop... stop whining. 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4lt Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, Adran said: To you, who know what those unreleased rules are, it seems the same. To Joe Blogs, who didn't play in the Beta, its a big difference suddenly facing a model like Agent 46 or Melissa Kore in a game when he'd read up on everything since release and never saw rules for it, it doesn't seem like the same thing. You at least know what disadvantage you will be at because of your choice. Or a new player will try playing nekima and wonder why she doesn't have a totem and the crew doesn't work. Or why Neverborn have fewer masters than other factions. If the rules are ready it would be better all round if they were released digitally. It would be better for all T.Os and all players. New or existing. Not sure why people would argue against that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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