M3e Mei Feng Tactica

[Zerofiend]

40 minutes ago, NoisyAssassin said:

Ride the Rails specifically calls out that it can be done while engaged 😉

Oh whoops, reading is fundamental.

[NoisyAssassin]

1 hour ago, Zerofiend said:

Oh whoops, reading is fundamental.

Haha, it certainly helps! Related example: I didn't realize that Mei's Breath of Fire doesn't have a gun icon (and thus can shoot into engagement without penalty) until my 7th game with her. 

[Chilbi]

I have a question concerning the Bombs In Yer Belly upgrade from Sparks. I know, when attacking a friendly model, the damage won't cause any Blasts.

Is this the same with this Upgrade (attaching it to a friendly model and then attacking it)?

[Mycellanious]

7 hours ago, Chilbi said:

I have a question concerning the Bombs In Yer Belly upgrade from Sparks. I know, when attacking a friendly model, the damage won't cause any Blasts.

Is this the same with this Upgrade (attaching it to a friendly model and then attacking it)?

Yup, you cant attack your own model to generate blasts. But you could Obey an enemy to attack your model to generate blasts, if you wanted.

[Mycellanious]

So in my last game I figured out something cool. Willie's bonus action Set Charge doesnt specify Friendly Scheme marker, you can blow up Enemy Scheme markers if you want to. So you can push an enemy into their own Scheme Marker to blow it up, hurt them, and deny Leave Your Mark

[frumpypigskin]

12 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

So in my last game I figured out something cool. Willie's bonus action Set Charge doesnt specify Friendly Scheme marker, you can blow up Enemy Scheme markers if you want to. So you can push an enemy into their own Scheme Marker to blow it up, hurt them, and deny Leave Your Mark

He can also do research mission almost by himself in Foundry using his blow it to hell marker next to himself and a scheme and scrap marker in the opponent's half.

[Strangedane]

Question from a game earlier today - do you have to beat/succeed in an opposed duel to declare triggers? Specifically in regards to Jackhammer Kick, can I use Press the Advantage, meaning I wont hit, but then still declare the trigger and get a new attack?

[Adran]

9 minutes ago, Strangedane said:

Question from a game earlier today - do you have to beat/succeed in an opposed duel to declare triggers? Specifically in regards to Jackhammer Kick, can I use Press the Advantage, meaning I wont hit, but then still declare the trigger and get a new attack?

In the case of a tie, the attacker wins. So, if Mei is attacking and  lowers her duel total by 2 and matches the opponent, then her action still succeeds, so triggers that are after succeeding will happen. If you lower your total to below the opponents value, you won't hit, and after succeeding triggers, such as Jackhammer kick won't work.

Some triggers are after resoving so will happen if you win or lose.

Strictly on the timing of the game, you declare triggers after you have generated final duel totals, but before you compare final duel totals (which might be a different total if you use something like press the advantage). So no you don't need to be winning to declare a trigger.

[Jinn]

3 minutes ago, Strangedane said:

Question from a game earlier today - do you have to beat/succeed in an opposed duel to declare triggers? Specifically in regards to Jackhammer Kick, can I use Press the Advantage, meaning I wont hit, but then still declare the trigger and get a new attack?

Triggers you can declare after failing will say after failing and things that can be done either after failing or succeeding will say after resolving (not 'When resolving' this also requires a success to go off). The default if a trigger just lists an effect is after succeeding. So all of Mei Feng's triggers require you to win the duel.

[Strangedane]

3 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Triggers you can declare after failing will say after failing and things that can be done either after failing or succeeding will say after resolving (not 'When resolving' this also requires a success to go off). The default if a trigger just lists an effect is after succeeding. So all of Mei Feng's triggers require you to win the duel.

Thanks! I belive you, but where does it state that the default is after succeding - we couldn´t find it in the rules?

[Jinn]

15 minutes ago, Strangedane said:

Thanks! I belive you, but where does it state that the default is after succeding - we couldn´t find it in the rules?

Pg. 12 of the core rulebook below the Trigger Timing section.

"If a Trigger does not list a timing, it is treated as an After succeeding Trigger."

Happy to help

[Mycellanious]

Here's a more interesting question tho, can you declare a trigger, fail to succeed, but still push from Constant Motion? 

Constant Motion procs whenever you declare a trigger, and you declare triggers before checking for success.

However, the March FAQ 1-4 clarifies that even though you can declare a trigger with a cost even if you cant pay the cost, if you dont pay the cost the triggers effects and effects that occur as a result of declaring  trigger, are ignored. This clearly indicates that you cannot declare Blinded by Iron when there are no scheme markers and use Constant Motion.

But say you flip a total of 8while your opponent flips a 10. Could you use Press the Advantage to reduce your total to 6, declare Jackhammer Kick, fail the attack so the trigger doesnt happen, but still push 2" from Constant Motion because you declared a trigger?

[frumpypigskin]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

Here's a more interesting question tho, can you declare a trigger, fail to succeed, but still push from Constant Motion? 

Constant Motion procs whenever you declare a trigger, and you declare triggers before checking for success.

However, the March FAQ 1-4 clarifies that even though you can declare a trigger with a cost even if you cant pay the cost, if you dont pay the cost the triggers effects and effects that occur as a result of declaring  trigger, are ignored. This clearly indicates that you cannot declare Blinded by Iron when there are no scheme markers and use Constant Motion.

But say you flip a total of 8while your opponent flips a 10. Could you use Press the Advantage to reduce your total to 6, declare Jackhammer Kick, fail the attack so the trigger doesnt happen, but still push 2" from Constant Motion because you declared a trigger?

🤯

[Adran]

I see no reason why not. You are allowed to declare the trigger if you have the suits. 

[green-n-dumb]

thinking to jump in to arcanists train with Mei Feng.
What other masters are synergizing with her and can share some OOK models?
First ideas was Toni because of Captain and oxfordian mages.
Second one was Kaeris and Hoffman.
Which of those are suitable to Mei, cover roles or strats/schemes she cant do and dont cost too much to jump in?

[NoisyAssassin]

Oxfordian Mage could definitely be interesting with Mei (but those are Sandeep, not Toni). Howard and the Mobile Toolkit are also possible OOK picks for her. But honestly, for the most part she sticks to her keyword, especially in Arcanists. I've only played one game with her in GG1, but the new strats and schemes seem just slightly less suited to her, which is unfortunate. Definitely need to get some practice in and see what she's good at now.

[Mycellanious]

9 hours ago, green-n-dumb said:

thinking to jump in to arcanists train with Mei Feng.
What other masters are synergizing with her and can share some OOK models?
First ideas was Toni because of Captain and oxfordian mages.
Second one was Kaeris and Hoffman.
Which of those are suitable to Mei, cover roles or strats/schemes she cant do and dont cost too much to jump in?

Mei doesnt share models with many other masters unfortunately. The Metal Gamin and Metal Golem are shared with Sansdeep, but thats about it. Otherwise, you are looking for tech picks or common versatile models. For example, Willie is a good model to own because hes the model in Arcanists with Blow It To Hell. Similarly, Joss can be a good OOK pick for irreducible damage and ruthless. Plus, the ToolKit and Medical Automaton are Augmented, both of which can see use in the Foundry. Hoffman can be a good, if expensive, second master because most of Mei's crew are constructs (but he kind of fills the same role as Sparks).

I dont think the Captain is a great pick in Foundry for 2 reasons. Firstly, he brings Anti-shooting, but the Foundry are already pretty good at Anti-shooting. They are fast enough to get into Mele, can teleport through walls so can hide out of LoS, and they already create their own Concealing terrain so Wind Wall kind of hurts you more than helps. Secondly, hes gonna get left in the dust. He's got average movement and no real range, so its going to be tough for him to have a meaningful impact on the game. 

In reality, a great thing about Mei is that she can make a strong second master. This is because shes fairly self sufficent, with a cheap but powerful totem. The two of them can take a flank by themselves with enough scrap to be mobile. This is useful if your opponent wasnt expecting to deal with Hazardous terrain (a good example of this is the 3rd Floor Wars broadcast of Hoffman vs Lucius, even if they did get the ruling for Hazardoud Auras incorrect) or if you want to try a Burning synergy with Kaeris, or to simply out muscle whatever scheme runner your opponent was trying to send your way. Things like Manos or Cerberus are usually strong scheme runners, because they can easily kill cheaper schemers and still have the AP to scheme. These are the kind of models you want to put Mei on a Flank against, because she can threaten them while staying relatively safe. You would basically just be out bidding them in schemer price. 

[green-n-dumb]

So I understood right - Mei is pretty ok in her own keyword and can stay pretty ok with only them and 2-3 OOK models?

[NoisyAssassin]

Yup!

[frumpypigskin]

11 hours ago, green-n-dumb said:

So I understood right - Mei is pretty ok in her own keyword and can stay pretty ok with only them and 2-3 OOK models?

Plus she has lots of play styles available to her between her 3 5ss minions and being able to play as Arcanist or 10T for completely different hiring pools and upgrades. 10T versatiles are still pretty sweet with her.

[Stumpyfjord]

On 3/24/2020 at 6:02 PM, green-n-dumb said:

So I understood right - Mei is pretty ok in her own keyword and can stay pretty ok with only them and 2-3 OOK models?

I only ever play her with 1 OOK model at a time I think and have 20-30 games with her.

 I really like the Mech Rider with her and that isn’t all the time. But everything else is sprinkle in to taste/need particularly with swarms now not so far above the curve.

[Mycellanious]

4 hours ago, Stumpyfjord said:

I only ever play her with 1 OOK model at a time I think and have 20-30 games with her.

 I really like the Mech Rider with her and that isn’t all the time. But everything else is sprinkle in to taste/need particularly with swarms now not so far above the curve.

I tend to go entitely in keyword or around 50% versatile. There is no middle ground for me because Kang exists. So either I stay in keyword to take advantage of Kang, or if I'm not taking Kang for w/e reason I go Rider + Effigy w/ upgrade

[Stumpyfjord]

8 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

There is no middle ground for me because Kang exists.

I definitely am very keyword centric if I want Kang that game. But I only use Kang maybe 1/4 of the time? Generally not unless I’m taking Rail Workers and/or Neil.
 

Do you find you take Kang a lot? It is one of the only ways to mass Focus in Arc that I can think of. (Maybe you’d count deep with quick action concentrates) When do you take him?

[Mycellanious]

2 hours ago, Stumpyfjord said:

I definitely am very keyword centric if I want Kang that game. But I only use Kang maybe 1/4 of the time? Generally not unless I’m taking Rail Workers and/or Neil.
 

Do you find you take Kang a lot? It is one of the only ways to mass Focus in Arc that I can think of. (Maybe you’d count deep with quick action concentrates) When do you take him?

I take Kang just about every game. He's default for me, and if I want to bring > 10ss OOK, thats when I consider dropping Kang.

The Focus pulse is sooo important for this crew imo, because it allows the crew to RtR once per turn with no drop is average DPS. Everyone in the Crew (Except the Golem, Gamin and Kang himself) has a 2/4/5 dmg track. This means one Focused attack will do about as much as two unFocused attacks, and since if you RtR every turn you only get one action, it means that Focus is really important. In addition, Kang has no Armor, but does have HtW and can heal himself. This is important because it gives the Keyword a variety of defensive tech. Everyone knows Foundry is an Armored crew, so I expect to see some form of Anti-Armor. But Kang doesn't rely on Armor to stay alive, he uses his high Wound count, Stones, and HtW. This means you can throw him at your opponents anti-armor models, or even something like Leveticus, and just tie them up. One other trick you can do with Kang, is to remember that Blinded By Iron also pushes you into Base Contact with the Target. So even though Kang only has a 5" threat range with his charge, he can shoot something 6" away, land Blinded by Iron for the Stun, and then Push 6" to get his 2nd hit off. 

I will say that outside of Turn one Focus, and taking hits for the crew Kang doesn't really do too much. He's not got great action efficiency for himself, but he does have the potential to have a 4/5/7 dmg track which can be great for punching through Armor, Incorporeal, HtW, or Stones, it just also makes me sad he cant give himself Focus (which I get). A lot of the time I'll take Claim Jump on Kang, because hes tough to kill, can heal himself above 50% easily, with RtR its tough to stop him from getting into the center, and tough to pin him down to kill him after the scheme is revealed, and in addition, he has the Knock Aside trigger, so he can Railwalk into the center, stone for a Mask, and Knock an enemy 4" away to score the point.

One cool thing about the Foundry is that they have a gradient of Size. The Gremlins are Sz 1, the Humans Sz 2, the Porkchop Sz 3, and the Golem Sz 4. Using this, I've been able to Pulse out 7 Focus turn 1, which is some crazy efficiency. It gives your crew serious threat, even from the 5ss minions, and allows Mei Feng to get a good Alpha Strike off Turn 1 or 2, especially if you get some Galvanize triggers off with Sparks. 

[Stumpyfjord]

That’s a really good point about the DPS efficiency. One of the skill points I think I need to improve on with the crew is over-reliance on RtRs and losing the AP/DPS efficiency of charging.

The focus also helps relieve some of the hand pressure I feel the crew struggles with overall. I’ve thought about plus flips improving “dependability” of too deck flipping but hadn’t pushed that to Focus use (which is pretty obvious once it comes to mind).

I’ve taken Claim Jump in him before for the reason you list with decent effect.

I think the hold-up for me is the Cost 9 for often standing still/low contribution. Maybe I should restructure the thought as 

“How much would you pay for a support piece that drops 7-10 focus a game for two cards?” and then judge the rest of his personal output against the residual Real Cost minus Made-up cost for focus spam.

Also just use him better through the game.