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M3e Mei Feng Tactica

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A couple other things that may not be immediately obvious:

1. Railworkers can charge and toss

2. You can set railworkers on fire then try to use their bonus action on each other for extra scrap, since they dont rly care about triggers. Also, you can use it to prevent your models from taking burning damage

3. Heated Claws just specifies construct, meaning you can attack your own models for reliable scrap in a pinch. Bonus points for attacking a model with armor and shielded to reduce the dmg to 0 ( like a metal gamin or railworker with magical training)

4. Counterspell also prevents resistance triggers, so you can put it on Mei to help her get past defensive tech

5. The push from Constant Motion happens, AFTER resolving the action. This means Mei's bonus action is actully 2 separate pushes, allowing you to push around corners. In addition, the dmg only applies if the first push is interrupted and the scrap marker is dropped at the end of the push.

6. Mei easily has a 24" threat range on turn 1. You can "slingshot" her and reach the far turf war marker with 2 AP. What this means is you can activate her last turn 1, charge a model, then activate her first turn 2 and pop vent steam or railwalk away for a ton of free damage.

7. Obey destroys this crew. But like obey DESTROYS this crew. Fear it and kill models who csn obey INSTANTLY. The Foundry has abysmal willpower, and can be Obeyed to Ride the Rails, putting your models 12" away or straight into their crew if they drop their own scrap marker. Even worse, railworkers (yay stat 4...) and Neil can be obeyed to attack and consume every scrap marker near them to hurt your models more as well as deprive your crew of key resources.

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This is a great write-up! I've only played Mei a couple of times so far and there were definitely a few little tricks I missed. Really looking forward to getting her on the table more this edition!

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17 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

A couple other things that may not be immediately obvious:

7. Obey destroys this crew. But like obey DESTROYS this crew. Fear it and kill models who csn obey INSTANTLY. The Foundry has abysmal willpower, and can be Obeyed to Ride the Rails, putting your models 12" away or straight into their crew if they drop their own scrap marker. Even worse, railworkers (yay stat 4...) and Neil can be obeyed to attack and consume every scrap marker near them to hurt your models more as well as deprive your crew of key resources.

Good points @Mycellanious! I'll have to nut out #6 properly especially for turf war.

Another trick to point out.

8. Willie's fire In the hole trigger on a mask happens Immediately. That means before determining success or failure so ANY mask can push an ally. Could be worth an action and a card If that gets them out of a scheme trap or out of combat to interact if scrap isn't available or helping a non Foundry model complete the winning scheme.

 

 

Great work @retnab! Tonnes of stuff I had missed! Looking forward to playing her again. "The pain train" is more efficient than I've been with her attacks yet and it works when starting engaged and let's you push to change charge targets if desired too!

I had completely missed that the forgeling has Kaeris' smolder trigger. The trigger happens after succeeding so the attacks Burning is applied before the trigger (error, see next post) making it 2+1 minimum damage on a ram. Good vs armour, bad vs incorporeal.

One small correction; flurry is once per turn not activation. So can't use it again after reactivate? 

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25 minutes ago, frumpypigskin said:

I had completely missed that the forgeling has Kaeris' smolder trigger. The trigger happens after succeeding so the attacks Burning is applied before the trigger making it 2+1 minimum damage on a ram. Good vs armour, bad vs incorporeal.

Unfortunately no.

You are correct with your trigger timing, but you're missing one bit.

Rulebook page 12:

Quote

 

Triggers

...

Costs
In addition to the suit needed to declare them, some Triggers have an additional cost that is listed in italics after their name. These costs must be paid when the Trigger is declared or no other portion of the Trigger may be resolved. ...

 

If there's no burning to reduce when you're declaring the trigger, you don't get to do rest of the trigger even if you apply some burning before "after succeeding" kicks in. Below for ease of reference is the smolder trigger (note the italics):

Quote

Smolder: Reduce the value of the target's Burning Condition by 1. Target suffers 1 damage from Burning.

 

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Mei feng is one of those masters that i've never tried and i've never faced.. i dont really know her, but i'm very curious about, but i still have to assembly her crew; 
Could i ask you for more clarification about her trigger times? Is it correct to say that: 

17 hours ago, retnab said:

(remember, timing-wise it’s “Jackhammer Kick push,” then “Constant Motion push,” then “Jackhammer Kick additional attack”)

it's because push of 2" granted by Jack.K trigger it is not considered an action, but a move, so the part of "costant motion" that says: "(but before resolving any additional actions granted by that trigger) happen after? is it right? Hypotetically she can doing 6 attacks on same model with luck...?
excuse me but here there are almost 40 degrees and my brain melts.. 😵

My compliments @retnab, great guide!

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@TeddyBear right, Constant Motion doesnt take place until after the first action is resolved which includes pushing the enemy with Jackhammer Kick but before you take the additional attack, so basically the target pushes 2", then you push 2", then you take your additional attack :)

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2 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

Hypotetically she can doing 6 attacks on same model with luck...?

 

1 hour ago, retnab said:

@TeddyBear right, Constant Motion doesnt take place until after the first action is resolved which includes pushing the enemy with Jackhammer Kick but before you take the additional attack, so basically the target pushes 2", then you push 2", then you take your additional attack :)

I do prefer your plan for breathing fire to get a free vent steam first. The pushes from the subsequent 2 jackhammer kicks each go through MEI's vent steam then and so take the damage without a flip and leave MEI with some deterrence and concealment for the rest of the turn. Who knows maybe something will burn to death by turn's end as well.

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16 minutes ago, frumpypigskin said:

 

I do prefer your plan for breathing fire to get a free vent steam first. The pushes from the subsequent 2 jackhammer kicks each go through MEI's vent steam then and so take the damage without a flip and leave MEI with some deterrence and concealment for the rest of the turn. Who knows maybe something will burn to death by turn's end as well.

Don’t forget to free action bounce the target through the steam as well. If they’re still alive after all that to take Burning damage at the end of the turn, they are either incorporeal, construct, or out of stones.

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2 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Don’t forget to free action bounce the target through the steam as well. If they’re still alive after all that to take Burning damage at the end of the turn, they are either incorporeal, construct, or out of stones.

Freight Train is friendly only isn't it? But yeah, unless they do no actions in their turn ( can you even do that)or MEI gets moved then they at least take 1 more point of damage and should be dead. As it should be after a master activation...

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54 minutes ago, frumpypigskin said:

But yeah, unless they do no actions in their turn ( can you even do that)

Yup. You don't have to take any actions. It has those magic words "up to". Page 21 of the rulebook if you're interested.

I'd say it's a pretty good trade if someone's too spooked to do actions in their activation :D

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1 hour ago, frumpypigskin said:

 

I do prefer your plan for breathing fire to get a free vent steam first. The pushes from the subsequent 2 jackhammer kicks each go through MEI's vent steam then and so take the damage without a flip and leave MEI with some deterrence and concealment for the rest of the turn. Who knows maybe something will burn to death by turn's end as well.

Actually they changed hazardous terrain in the Beta because vent steam was too strong. Look at page 37, a model only takes damage if the hazardous terrain MARKER is pushed into contact with it. Vent steam has no marker, so the models do NOT take damage when Mei Feng pushes or walks into them with vent steam active

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1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

Don’t forget to free action bounce the target through the steam as well. If they’re still alive after all that to take Burning damage at the end of the turn, they are either incorporeal, construct, or out of stones.

Sadly Freight Train is friendly only, but she can use it on herself to ram the enemy for one last 2 damage tackle

14 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Actually they changed hazardous terrain in the Beta because vent steam was too strong. Look at page 37, a model only takes damage if the hazardous terrain MARKER is pushed into contact with it. Vent steam has no marker, so the models do NOT take damage when Mei Feng pushes or walks into them with vent steam active

That is true, but what they're talking about here is that Jackhammer Kick pushes the enemy, which DOES make them take hazardous damage because they're the ones moving

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20 minutes ago, retnab said:

 

That is true, but what they're talking about here is that Jackhammer Kick pushes the enemy, which DOES make them take hazardous damage because they're the ones moving

Ahhh I didnt think about that. Does the model need to be completely kicked out of the aura or only moved at all while inside it?

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29 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Ahhh I didnt think about that. Does the model need to be completely kicked out of the aura or only moved at all while inside it?

Just have to be in the Hazardous at any time during the move whether they started in it or not - and technically being moved 0" still counts as moving so even if they're against a wall you can still trigger it lol

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Hazardous terrain rules are important for Foundry so it pays to take the time to master them. If you have Sparks within 6 of any scrap which have one of your vent steam models right by them, to charge that model they'll likely go within 1" of the scrap and move into the vented steam. These auras stack with each other but not themselves, so for the charge they'll take 1dmg and injured from Spark's aura for the push AND then the attack if still within range AND 1 then 1 from the vent steam too. Doesn't matter how many steams you go through with 1 action it's just 1 damage. Same for the scrap aura. 

Any part of any action counts.

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Added Steam Arachnids and Silent Ones to the list of suggested hires (don't know how I forgot about them lol), removed some triggers that I don't think are crucial to know about, and cut down on the icons throughout so I'm not going over the cap and so there's not just random T's and R's in front of triggers lol.

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Ok Foundry followers! After several games with Hoffman and others I've decided to get back on the rails for a while. To help fuel list generation I thought I'd encourage more discussion here about how this crew gets us points and when folks like/don't likey her.

What are your favourite strategies for the rail crew? What models are your MVPs for each where applicable?

For mine, ride the rails seems to lend itself to plant and turf war.

Plant to spread a web to first lay your own strategy markers and 2nd then go back to deny theirs.

Turf war to ferry your models into the opponent's half whilst leaving scrap at your own just in case. 

I'm still figuring out how to best do idols with her. Most of her models have fewer HP than average (but armour) which isn't ideal to punt idols with. The healing she can hire either isn't fast enough to keep up (toolkit, Hoffman), has a short range and a huge target on its head (Sparks, steamfitter) or not quite enough synergy/value (silent one). Alternatively, 1-2 spider swarms would a seem to be a fantastic pick with their heal from scrap, ability to get the most from upgrades and higher hit point pool. 

She also doesn't seem like the top tier pick for reckoning either. Having to play a hit and run game and potentially grt hard countered.

 

Now what about schemes.

It's obvious dig their graves will be hard not to pick given how easy part 2 is. Part One still requires you to work around your opponent.

 

People talk about breakthrough with  Foundry but I'm yet to try it. Gamin seem slow when laying track themselves (without a magnetism target). 

Harness the ley line might be straight forward once scrap has been sold along the line. Still action intensive compared to just having a union minor do it.... Metal gamin may do fine provided they can magnetise in a useful direction.

Otherwise i often feel the need to lean on soulstone miners to get schemes done. (See their own thread for that discussion).

 

I'm currently waiting on my M3e delivery and some models to flesh out my Ten thunders foray with MEI so will post there about that once I've got some more games played. 

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I had a significant amount of questions come up in a game yesterday, mostly concerning Incorporeal models. 

 

Incorporeal states: "Reduce all damage this model suffers from Attack Actions by 1, to a minimum of 0. This model ignores Terrain while moving and is unaffected by Hazardous Terrain. This model can move through other models and vice versa."

Mei Feng's bonus action states: "Remove any number of Scrap Markers within 2" of target friendly model. Push the target up to 1", plus up to 3" per removed Scarp Marker. If this Push is interrupted by an enemy model, the enemy model must pass on a TN 14 Mv duel or suffer damage equal to the target's Sz."

 

1-a. Because Incorporeal says this model CAN model through other models and vice versa, can I choose to not treat the enemy as incorporeal and "bump" into it, or do I have to push all the way through it? (note, I know that the push is an "up to" push, but if Mei pushes up to base contact, then the enemy model is definitely not interrupting the push, so it would not take the Mv duel)

1-b. If I can choose to bump an incorporeal model and not move through the incorporeal model, does this count as the push being interrupted by the enemy model, or by Mei Feng? My opponent argues that even if I could bump into an incorporeal model, because I chose to treat the model as impassible, the enemy model is technically not interrupting the push, my decision is interrupting the push, and therefore the enemy model would not take the Mv duel. 

 

2. We both agree that you cannot end a move inside a model, so if Mei Feng were in base contact with an incorporeal model and attempted to push 1" towards it, would this count as

a) the incorporeal model interrupting the push 

b) being unable to complete the action so the action just fails without pushing

 

3. Assuming the action does not just fail, If Mei Feng were in base contact with an enemy model, can she attempt to bonus action push towards them and have them interrupt the push? I know on pg. 14 of my digital copy of the rules, it states "Any time something changes location or is affected by a movement effect, it is considered to have moved (even if it moved 0"), but my opponents says that since you cant get any closer to a model that you are in base contact with, you cannot push towards them, and since you cant push towards them you cant make them interrupt the push and take the Mv duel. 

 

 

My other questions refer to LoS to Scrap Markers. So most of the abilities the Foundry have to interact with Scarp Markers are like Mei's Bonus, action, "Remove any number of Scarp Markers within X"" We both agree this notation means that the action does not require LoS to the Scarp Marker, however:

1-a. If a 40mm model is completely covering a Scrap Marker, can it still be removed via an ability like Freight Train, "Remove any number of Scrap Markers within X""?

1-b. If a Foundry model is in base contact with a 40mm model completely covering a Scrap Marker, can it still Ride the Rails using that Scrap Marker? Note, I know that you could not PLACE in base contact with that marker, but since the Foundry model is still within 1" of the Scarp Marker, could it RTR FROM that Marker to another, or does the Marker count as not in play while it is covered? 

2. If a model Rides the Rails to a Scarp Marker it ends in base contact with Marker. Is it possible for a 40mm model to completely cover a Scrap Marker that another model is in base contact with, or would the Foundry model have LoS to the Scarp marker if it is in base contact with it, even though the rest of the Marker is completely covered?

 

Sorry for the barrage of questions!

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@Mycellanious

 

Freight Train

1) a: It's the opponent's choice since it's their effect.  They can let you move through it if you want, but since Freight Train is a "may" even then you can declare you're going to move 0.00001" and since the move is now being interrupted you can still make them take the TN.  b: Yes, as long as you declare you'd move even the tiniest sliver further than their base allows you to (most opponents will understand that moving into b2b is that, but if you want to be cautious that's what the Rule of Intent is for).

2) a: Yes.  b: No, even a move of 0" counts as a move so if you start the move b2b they will still be affected by it.

3) Like in 2b, yes exactly

 

Scrap Markers

1) a: Depends, if you still have LOS to it then yes but otherwise no.  b: You can RtR from that Scrap since it doesn't require LOS, but not to it unless you can land b2b with it (if it's on the board it counts as in play, not sure where your opponent's getting the idea it wouldn't from)

2) If I'm reading this right, you're asking if after someone RtR's over b2b with a Scrap and then someone stands on the rest of it, does the Foundry model still have LOS to it?  Then the answer is yes, because you could still draw the "line" of sight 0" from the Foundry model's base to the Scrap Marker without crossing over another model's base

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Are you sure incorporeal works like that? I would argue, as long as my opponent decides to "be incorporeal" and not block the push, even when the push ends in the model, the model did not stop the push, but it was cut short because otherwise the pushing model would have ended up in an illegal position.

Depending scrap markers, for 1a I would argue, because the action does not state it needs LoS to the marker(s), the marker can be removed, even when it is completely covered.

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3 hours ago, MuMantai said:

Are you sure incorporeal works like that? I would argue, as long as my opponent decides to "be incorporeal" and not block the push, even when the push ends in the model, the model did not stop the push, but it was cut short because otherwise the pushing model would have ended up in an illegal position.

I would say that the last paragraph on p14 means that if the push would end with overlapping bases you can't use incorporeal. 

("At no point can a model end any move with 
its base overlapping the base of another model, 
even if the model is able to move through the 
other model.")

So it would revert to the push rules on p15. If the incorporeal model wasn't there, the push wouldn't stop and is being interrupted.

 

3 hours ago, MuMantai said:

Depending scrap markers, for 1a I would argue, because the action does not state it needs LoS to the marker(s), the marker can be removed, even when it is completely covered.

I agree. Only the friendly model is being targeted and the scrap doesn't say it has to be in LOS.

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Great topic, thanks for help.
Can someone create list for 50 ss? I want to get general idea behind this master. Thank you for help.

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