Mr. Moustache aka Hulk Hogan aka Von Schill / M3E

[TheJoyInGaming]

I would have him “Pull” enemies or use Shouting Orders to Concentrate and Shoot for mid or high damage. 

[nunorod]

Had a good run with Lazarus last game. Opponent was using Lady J and crew and they stuck quite together on account of recruiters push ability. Took advantage of that and in second turn threw 2 shots of granades that affected 4 models... completely drained his hand as I intended. Didn't do it with intention of damaging but still got some damage through and drained his hand and deck quite effectively. Using Lz at start of turn helps drain hands, later in the turn helps put some damage

[Zebo]

9 hours ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

I would have him “Pull” enemies or use Shouting Orders to Concentrate and Shoot for mid or high damage. 

I think "Shouting Orders" is only minions. So VS can't benefit from it. 

It's  a shame, but the nerf to his damage makes him only really useful in providing upgrades and pushing people around.

[CD1248]

16 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I think "Shouting Orders" is only minions. So VS can't benefit from it. 

It's  a shame, but the nerf to his damage makes him only really useful in providing upgrades and pushing people around.

Shouting Orders (X) affects any (X) models, not just minions. He can benefit just fine.

[Zebo]

Wow, they changed it again, didn't realized.

Still, weak 2 with no triggers makes his rifle too bad for being a Master. Still don't understand why they decided to nerf his damage instead of his range (in the pictures he's wearing a shotgun).

[Trample]

Taking another look at Von Schill's card I really don't know what he would do during his activation that would be master worthy. Load Up is not an efficient use of a master AP after maybe one use of it in round 1 as long as you have the mask. Later Load Up can give you in the best circumstance a Rocket Launcher attack from a minion with a plus flip and have that minion push 2" or give someone the launcher and focused. Doesn't seem worth it. 

Neither of his attacks are worth much. Pull is an OK trigger, but there are loads of 7-9 point models in faction that have equal or better attacks than Von Schill. He can get two focused 14" shots off per turn that ignore cover and hard to wound. Maybe that's his job. 

I would be really curious to hear from folks who have had success with Von Schill about what his role is during the game. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

1 hour ago, Trample said:

Later Load Up can give you in the best circumstance a Rocket Launcher attack from a minion with a plus flip and have that minion push 2" or give someone the launcher and focused. 

I have been wondering if that may be the best use of his actions after Turn 1. I have been considering taking a Scout with Soldier for Hire and using him as a missile platform. Rocket Launcher shot at 6that ignores Concealment and Friendly Fire and can occasionally be at 7is no joke. Cheat the Damage for that tasty severe and earn your cards back with Bounty Hunter. That is all Theoryfaux though...

Other than that I have also used him as a courier for models. Load up to use Rocket Boots immediately into another engagement. Walk. Bonus to pull them out and use Load Up to reattach Rocket Boots with a heal or free focused.

Edited August 28, 2019 by TheJoyInGaming

[Barmution]

Rocket Launcher is good, Rocket Launcher on a focused Librarian or previously activated Freikorpsman who has a built in ram from his bonus action is awesome.

Von Schill's strength is the flexibility his upgrades gives his crew, esp. movement from the Rocket Boots or the Assault Shield (the bonus action). Denial of scheme marker based schemes is trivial due to the Grenade Belt upgrade and he himself is ridiculously tanky if you put some healing into the crew and can charge out of engagement so he decides when he's tarpitting and when he's gunning for objectives. I wouldn't really consider using his attack actions unless you've got a desperate need to remove stuff that's either HtW or in Cover but his support both in Shouting Orders and the upgrades allows your crew to be flexible to the point of your opponent having to commit to suboptimal choices. And remember that the push from the Load Up comes before the action from the crow trigger, allowing for some element of surprise.

I keep seeing people trying to play VS as a killy master. That's not his thing anymore and you will get disappointed. But IMHO he got way more awesome and the Freikorps are now able to get VP from almost any Strat and Scheme pool.

PS. Don't bring Lazarus, he's just not worth it in 95% of match ups.

[Trample]

Well' I'll have to try and get him on the table at some point. I see the denial with the grenades and some of the movement abilities are pretty straightforward, but it sounds like the other stuff requires a heck of a lot of setup. But it's difficult to tell if you haven't seen it on the table. I'll give him a try one of these days. 

[Jesy Blue]

47 minutes ago, Barmution said:

PS. Don't bring Lazarus, he's just not worth it in 95% of match ups.

Yeah, it's kind of sad.... Arik & Hannah just outshine him in every role except against Zoraida.

[Zebo]

55 minutes ago, Barmution said:

I keep seeing people trying to play VS as a killy master. That's not his thing anymore and you will get disappointed. But IMHO he got way more awesome and the Freikorps are now able to get VP from almost any Strat and Scheme pool.

Not sure how a 3/4/5 attack with a push trigger can be considered killy, specially on a Master.

But I'm getting tired of this theme. Nerfing VS damage was a big mistake IMHO but that's what we have and it's not gonna change.

What are we gonna do when we don't have any useful upgrade disposable? I guess little. His attacks are not worth anymore. I've been without playing since the end of the beta. Maybe I'll give the game another chance again in the future. Also changing the killiness of Viks when I'm purchasing and painting their crew doesn't help.

[Trample]

7 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Also changing the killiness of Viks when I'm purchasing and painting their crew doesn't help.

Viks might be the third killiest keyword in outcast! As long as you're not dealing with terrifying or heavy armor at least. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

2 hours ago, Barmution said:

Rocket Launcher is good, Rocket Launcher on a focused Librarian or previously activated Freikorpsman who has a built in ram from his bonus action is awesome.

Actions generated by Triggers, like in Load Up and “Pull!”, cannot declare Triggers, see pg 12.

That means the Scout is the best target for a Rocket Launcher and the “Give ‘em Hell!” Trigger on Load Up as he still gets his benefits from Advanced Sights and Pursue.

[Barmution]

 

13 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Actions generated by Triggers, like in Load Up and “Pull!”, cannot declare Triggers, see pg 12.

That means the Scout is the best target for a Rocket Launcher and the “Give ‘em Hell!” Trigger on Load Up as he still gets his benefits from Advanced Sights and Pursue.

Yes, that's true but you can still get solid use out of the launcher on the model's own activation. Less flexibility/awesomeness during VS' activation but still pretty good.

[TheJoyInGaming]

10 minutes ago, Barmution said:

 

Oh wow, that's a massive miss on my side. Thanks for correcting me!

No problem! I went through the same sad realization. It is for the best though. The Librarians and Freikorpsmann have to have something they can’t do.

[Barmution]

Just now, TheJoyInGaming said:

No problem! I went through the same sad realization. It is for the best though. The Librarians and Freikorpsmann have to have something they can’t do.

Sorry for editing my answer like that, just realized that my answer was intended to reflect the usefulness of the rocket launcher on those guys in general, not just through the Give 'em Hell trigger. Still a big thing to be aware of for those using VS.

[TheJoyInGaming]

15 minutes ago, Barmution said:

Sorry for editing my answer like that, just realized that my answer was intended to reflect the usefulness of the rocket launcher on those guys in general, not just through the Give 'em Hell trigger. Still a big thing to be aware of for those using VS.

No apologies necessary. I didn’t think anything of the edit. 

I agree. Both they, and the Engineers, are fantastic for the Rocket Launcher as they each have a way to build in that Crit Strike.

[Barmution]

5 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

No apologies necessary. I didn’t think anything of the edit. 

I agree. Both they, and the Engineers, are fantastic for the Rocket Launcher as they each have a way to build in that Crit Strike.

I'm still pretty convinced that the Wanted Criminal on a Librarian (which you wrote about in another thread) is a contender for the best 2 SS investment in the game due to Swagger and them gaining an engagement range from it.

[TheJoyInGaming]

2 minutes ago, Barmution said:

I'm still pretty convinced that the Wanted Criminal on a Librarian (which you wrote about in another thread) is a contender for the best 2 SS investment in the game due to Swagger and them gaining an engagement range from it.

Who doesn’t love a Librarian with Swag?

[admiralvorkraft]

3 hours ago, Zebo said:

Not sure how a 3/4/5 attack with a push trigger can be considered killy, specially on a Master.

But I'm getting tired of this theme. Nerfing VS damage was a big mistake IMHO but that's what we have and it's not gonna change.

What are we gonna do when we don't have any useful upgrade disposable? I guess little. His attacks are not worth anymore. I've been without playing since the end of the beta. Maybe I'll give the game another chance again in the future. Also changing the killiness of Viks when I'm purchasing and painting their crew doesn't help.

I mean 3/4/5 was a solid damage track even in 2e and damage is lower across the board in 3. I suggest looking at some more cards and getting a better understanding of where the field is at before you get too upset.

[Zebo]

16 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

before you get too upset.

It's too late for this xD

I would have preferred to see a nerf on his range (in the last pictures he was wearing a shotgun, not a rifle)

Or just give him back his old reliable Clockwork Seeker (I think every VS's player would love this)

[Jesy Blue]

4 hours ago, Trample said:

Viks might be the third killiest keyword in outcast! As long as you're not dealing with terrifying or heavy armor at least. 

I'm not finding them killy at all.... but their mobility, my god!

So, Levi first, definetly.... but then who?  This actually may be a better question for another post.

[Trample]

9 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

I'm not finding them killy at all.... but their mobility, my god!

So, Levi first, definetly.... but then who?  This actually may be a better question for another post.

Daw after Levi, but you're right - Viks are not very killy any more. 

[Trample]

10 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

I mean 3/4/5 was a solid damage track even in 2e and damage is lower across the board in 3. I suggest looking at some more cards and getting a better understanding of where the field is at before you get too upset.

I'm not sure how many cards Zebo has read, but I've read them all and there are plenty of 3/4/5 models in 3e. I mean there are lots of them in a lot of different factions. Are there as many as 2e? No, but there are plenty out there. There are 14 with that track or better in Outcasts alone if you include built in triggers, charge up, and necrotic decay. So 1 of every 5 outcast models has a better damage track than Von Schill. 

[nunorod]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:15 PM, Barmution said:

PS. Don't bring Lazarus, he's just not worth it in 95% of match ups.

I don't think one cannot bring Lazarus if is thinking on using him for killing. Think of him of early turn hand removal or late turn ping dmg spreader. 

He will of course be less valuable against a crew that spreads either from origin or because of strat and schemes. 

Also he can clear scheme markers and when needed be tanky because of armour, heal and extra heals from collegues. 

Don't forget he also provides cover if he is close by. He is support not a killer anymore. I do love the trio Laz, Hannah and Erik...but a bit expensive