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Ice pillars question

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Raspys ability says if a model starts within 1 inch they have to either discard a card or gain slow. What if they are unable to gain slow? Do they HAVE to pitch a card?

Situations would be if they already had slow or could not gain conditions like Archie?

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My bet is that you don't lose a card in these cases but i'd prefer that others confirm my bet.

I have another question on this ability. What if the model is next to two ice pillars? Does he have to pitch two cards? I thought it would still be one card, but I listened to the Deep Dive episode on Rasputina of Third Floor Wars the other day and they suggested the opposite. The wording seems clear to me though:

Quote

Harsh Winter:

If this model is this Crew's Leader, enemy models that start their Activation within :ToS-Aura:1 of it or an Ice Pillar Marker must either discard a card or gain Slow.

 

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38 minutes ago, Pergli said:

Raspys ability says if a model starts within 1 inch they have to either discard a card or gain slow. What if they are unable to gain slow? Do they HAVE to pitch a card?

Situations would be if they already had slow or could not gain conditions like Archie?

Page 33, This or That Choices, part of the first para.
"if the model had no cards in its Control Hand, it could not choose to discard a card; if the model already had the Stunned Condition (or could not gain it for some reason), it could not choose to gain Stunned."

So, you would have to pitch a card, if you had Slow, or Numbskull.

 

19 minutes ago, Franchute said:

I have another question on this ability. What if the model is next to two ice pillars? Does he have to pitch two cards? I thought it would still be one card, but I listened to the Deep Dive episode on Rasputina of Third Floor Wars the other day and they suggested the opposite. The wording seems clear to me though:

 

3FW would be wrong in this case. 

Harsh Winter: If this model is this Crew's Leader, enemy models that start their Activation within :aura1 of it or an Ice Pillar Marker must either discard a card or gain Slow.

It is clearly an Aura being generated.

pg30, Auras, third para.
Auras are not cumulative. If a model would be affected by multiple Auras of the same name (i.e., if the aura would change its game state in some way), then it is only affected by one such Aura of its controller’s choice.

So, it only applies once, regardless of how many Ice Pillars are in range. While you could argue technically the Ice Pillar's aura doesn't have a name, if you use that argument, auras as a whole fall down completely as an effect. The fact is, the one ability, which has a name, is generating multiple auras.
 

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This or that choices example makes this pretty clear. I'd certainly not realised this. Makes Rasputina I think considerably better given how easy it is to hand out slow at range.

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Doubt about Raspy an her Ice Pilars.

They give cover in a 3'' shadow, however I don't see that Rasputina ignores it. Does that mean that if Rasputina attacks a model near of her own Ice Pilar with "Winter's Strike", that models will get cover bonuses?

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53 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Doubt about Raspy an her Ice Pilars.

They give cover in a 3'' shadow, however I don't see that Rasputina ignores it. Does that mean that if Rasputina attacks a model near of her own Ice Pilar with "Winter's Strike", that models will get cover bonuses?

Yea, but you could also just draw LoS from that Pillar so you dont have to worry about that

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7 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Yea, but you could also just draw LoS from that Pillar so you dont have to worry about that

It's kind of a consolation prize... it's a big hit for his killy power because with a :-flip to damage it's very hard to reach moderate and severe damage. At least, shockwaves aren't affected by that, so I guess you can just use that one, slow and stagger anything near of a pilar and forget about it.

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8 hours ago, Ogid said:

Doubt about Raspy an her Ice Pilars.

They give cover in a 3'' shadow, however I don't see that Rasputina ignores it. Does that mean that if Rasputina attacks a model near of her own Ice Pilar with "Winter's Strike", that models will get cover bonuses?

If the pillar is in a place that Her LOS will pass through it then they will gain cover. But as pointed out, Raspuntia can often draw LOS from several different points on the board, so its often not that hard for her to avoid cover, especially from her own pillars. She has a range of options, including using that pillar to draw line of sight, or even using her bonus action to blow up the pillar.

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1 minute ago, Adran said:

If the pillar is in a place that Her LOS will pass through it then they will gain cover. But as pointed out, Raspuntia can often draw LOS from several different points on the board, so its often not that hard for her to avoid cover, especially from her own pillars. She has a range of options, including using that pillar to draw line of sight, or even using her bonus action to blow up the pillar.

Cover is given by just bein inside of the Pilar's Shadow; a model will have cover regardless of from where she draw LoS if he is within 3'' of the pilar. She can attack different models with her big range tho, and destroying the pilar with her bonus action is also a possibility, but if they position between 2'' and 3'' that action won't affect them.

A friend is having some issues with Rasputina (he doesn't make that crew work), so I'm just checking this is being played right. He usually try to spam attack through the Pilars. I'm suggesting him to use Focused attacks (and maybe including something like a Mannequeen or Envy to give her Focused) but I'm not that into her crew and Arcanist in general.

Any tips on how to use her?

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3 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Cover is given by just bein inside of the Pilar's Shadow; a model will have cover regardless of from where she draw LoS if he is within 3'' of the pilar. She can attack different models with her big range tho, and destroying the pilar with her bonus action is also a possibility, but if they position between 2'' and 3'' that action won't affect them.

A friend is having some issues with Rasputina (he doesn't make that crew work), so I'm just checking this is being played right. He usually try to spam attack through the Pilars. I'm suggesting him to use Focused attacks (and maybe including something like a Mannequeen or Envy to give her Focused) but I'm not that into her crew and Arcanist in general.

Any tips on how to use her?

I'd suggest re-reading the Shadow rules

Models within a terrain’s Shadow (even partially) have Cover against any z Actions that can draw one or more sight lines through that terrain. (page 18)

 

The example on Page 19 also shows that the Guard patrol doesn't have cover even though it is in the shadow.

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5 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Cover is given by just bein inside of the Pilar's Shadow; a model will have cover regardless of from where she draw LoS if he is within 3'' of the pilar. 

Incorrect, Shadow only comes into play if one or more sight lines pass through terrain that has a shadow. If she's drawing LOS from the pillar, no sight lines are passing through it.

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Lol, ty guys, I knew we had to be missing something. We've been played this as if for just being in the shadow the model get cover.

So, if Rasputina is drawing LoS from one of her own pilars, then the LoS doesn't go through that terrain, right? So the other model won't get cover

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On 10/7/2019 at 2:32 AM, Ogid said:

Lol, ty guys, I knew we had to be missing something. We've been played this as if for just being in the shadow the model get cover.

So, if Rasputina is drawing LoS from one of her own pilars, then the LoS doesn't go through that terrain, right? So the other model won't get cover

Specifically, it's because of a statement in the third paragraph of line of sight:

Quote

Sight lines between objects are never drawn in such a way that they cross either object’s base.

About the only way you'd be unable to draw line of sight from a pillar, have it be in the way, but be able to draw line of sight from a different pillar, would probably involve Dense terrain:

  Pillar 1 - Dense Terrain - Model (The Model and the Pillar are both outside of the dense terrain)

and just further off to one side (relative to the line from Pillar 1 to the model), Pillar 2 has line sight around Pillar 1, but some of the possible sight lines still cross Pillar 1.  And Pillar 1 is within 3" of the target model.

There doesn't appear to be any way of creating Dense markers, so it's pretty much just going to be something to watch out for around fog banks and forests.

(If you replaced the Dense terrain with a Ht 10 non-Pillar, the non-Pillar would be creating its own shadow, so no one would mind, I think.  It's just the strange situation where the two different line of sight blocking mechanisms overlap.)

Although, putting way too much thought into this, I suppose:

Pillar 1 - one of the Golem (Sz 4!) or Lord Chompy - [The model you want to target]

and a few degrees off of that line, put pillar two.  (I keep forgetting that they moved a few M2E Ht3 models into Ht4 in M3E so LCB doesn't stand out so much.)  You could get a similar situation with a shorter intervening model standing on intervening Ht terrain, but it's difficult to do without the other intervening terrain generating its own, more likely to be forgiven, shadow on the model you want to target.

Golem Pillar Awareness, I guess.  👷‍♀️

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