Does the Dog Die? A Look at Nekima Playstyles

[Kharnage]

So I'm looking to see what people usually take in their lists for the God Empress of the Neverborn  Nephilim, and seeing what interesting strats anyone's come up with for the admittedly direct and simple True Mother. My usual list is 
Nekima with Inhuman Reflexes
Hayreddin with Inhuman Reflexes
Black Blood Shaman
Mature Nephilim 
Young Nephilim 
Young Nephilim
Blood Hunter
7 stones. This usually works out pretty well, sometimes I swap out a Young for another Shaman, but it's fast and killy but also can be schemey. Won Austin's first 3e tournament (all six players, but still)
However, the list that I find amusing is dog spam. Take, say, Nekima w/ Inhuman, Hayreddin w/ Inhuman, a couple of shamans, and then a tot and 4 dogs. Sure, you're losing out on the initiative war from pass tokens, but consider this: Enraged by Insolence fails to specify that the friendly Nephilim dying in range was killed by *an enemy*. Ergo, your shamans can start pustuling the dogs to death for splash damage, enraging Nekima for free attacks, fun, and profit. Also, the dogs, assuming the black blood shamans or Hayreddin can generate an extra corpse alongside the Blood Hunter, all have focus 2 for no effort on their own part, which makes them somewhat scary.
Thoughts? Other lists that could be fun to try?

[Hawkoon]

I usually run with something similar, though I like to put IR on a mature instead of Hayreddin, as diving charge is just awesome to get him where your opponent doesn't want him, also makes him impossible to pin down.

I have tried Lilitu instead of a young, but her low df and mv can be troublesome. I guess it depends on what my opponent brings if I really need that lure. Nephilim have little issues getting around the board so I guess lure is best used when you have bubbles you need to disrupt.

I struggle finding a place for Lelu though... He does have a thing going with card draw, black blood through selfharm and healing with Lilitu, but I just feel I get more work done taking a young instead.

[Ludvig]

Killing your own models is always fun and seem thematic for Nekima since I don't think nephilim are animal friendly. I'm looking forward to trying some nephilim lists as well. Can't offer many tips since I haven't played much m3e.

[Gaston]

I keep trying Lure because it seems like it should be very solid for the crew. They seem to not be terribly durable, so peeling off and isolating an enemy lets you eat them in relative safety. I love that Lilitu's Lure is Stat 7, but hot potato she dies a TON. It has me looking at other models for the role, such as Doppleganger or Hinamatsu.

I am also on the lookout for things that push Nekima around, simply because she seems to walk a lot, and that feels like such a waste of a greatsword. (Another reason I like Lure, sorta the inverse, bring them closer instead of pushing up). The options for that, however, seem less efficent cost-wise. Effigy requires an 8, but you could Lure/Companion Nekima up?

Lelu, my best guess, and purely a guess, is to pair with Pandora against more armored crews. Then he goes in, swings once for probably 1 damage (after armor), then poison triggers Oppurtunist for 1, he can Black Blood himself for 1, then poison triggers at the end of the turn for 1. Kinda a semi-inefficent ping damager? Or perhaps he is useful for Hayreddin's ping attacks? He goes in, Hayreddin hurts him, Lilitu activates after and heals him a wee bit? 

Nekima noob, so grain of salt these ideas.

[Hawkoon]

Lelu's link with Hayreddins tot summoning is interesting, seeing as he can be affected by it himself. So on his own he can actually hurt himself twice for 2 points of damage from black blood. Might be worth a try atleast.

[Kharnage]

47 minutes ago, Gaston said:

Nekima noob, so grain of salt these ideas.

"Out of the mouths of babes" as they say. New people often have the freshest ideas!
I think that for raw, unadulterated ping damage spam, having two sets of the twins and Hayreddin is a fantastic combination. The Lilitus can whip their friends to splash and draw a card, and obviously Blood for Blood and Masochistic Thoughts from the Lelus will provide a lot of ping damage as well, while still being able to heal through most of it from their twin link thing. As an added bonus, you'll be drawing cards like a madman while you do it. Between both sets of twins that's draw 6 discard 2, I think? And you need to top-deck two 4s on Lelu's Blood for Blood to make it happen? Pretty solid. 
You should certainly expect casualties, but with casualties, comes corpses! And probably tots! 
I've always defaulted to "hit it very hard" style Nekima, throwing out Lorelei, the Living Blade attacks as much as I could, but I wonder at the possibility of being more loose with the Hurl Corpse action. For one thing, once you've declared Shove Aside on the main attack, if you're not going to kill your target outright, the Hurl Corpse's triggers are better for the rest of the activation. Less accurate with less damage, but still. Also, the mental image of Nekima cutting down someone, and then hurling their corpse into their friend, and then potentially eating the hurled corpse herself on a Ram trigger, is just, so freaking awesome. Also it's quite a respectable amount of healing, potentially. 
Also, her "Ours!" Trigger on Hurl Corpse is after resolving, so you don't even need to hit to get the mask trigger off for AoE Stunned duels. Overall, it's underrated, I think.

[Hawkoon]

2 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

"Out of the mouths of babes" as they say. New people often have the freshest ideas!
I think that for raw, unadulterated ping damage spam, having two sets of the twins and Hayreddin is a fantastic combination. The Lilitus can whip their friends to splash and draw a card, and obviously Blood for Blood and Masochistic Thoughts from the Lelus will provide a lot of ping damage as well, while still being able to heal through most of it from their twin link thing. As an added bonus, you'll be drawing cards like a madman while you do it. Between both sets of twins that's draw 6 discard 2, I think? And you need to top-deck two 4s on Lelu's Blood for Blood to make it happen? Pretty solid. 
You should certainly expect casualties, but with casualties, comes corpses! And probably tots! 
I've always defaulted to "hit it very hard" style Nekima, throwing out Lorelei, the Living Blade attacks as much as I could, but I wonder at the possibility of being more loose with the Hurl Corpse action. For one thing, once you've declared Shove Aside on the main attack, if you're not going to kill your target outright, the Hurl Corpse's triggers are better for the rest of the activation. Less accurate with less damage, but still. Also, the mental image of Nekima cutting down someone, and then hurling their corpse into their friend, and then potentially eating the hurled corpse herself on a Ram trigger, is just, so freaking awesome. Also it's quite a respectable amount of healing, potentially. 
Also, her "Ours!" Trigger on Hurl Corpse is after resolving, so you don't even need to hit to get the mask trigger off for AoE Stunned duels. Overall, it's underrated, I think.

Looks like I'll be needing another pair of Lelu and Lilitu... 😈

[Ludvig]

You can field double lilitus now right? That's a lot of luring and if they bring the fight to you you don't need to spend ap walking. 

[Hawkoon]

Here's to hoping Wyrd makes new sculpts of the pair. I don't really like having duplicate sculpts and I really dislike the old metal ones, but it does seem they might work best as a foursome.

[Cathaidan]

2 hours ago, Kharnage said:

"Out of the mouths of babes" as they say. New people often have the freshest ideas!
I think that for raw, unadulterated ping damage spam, having two sets of the twins and Hayreddin is a fantastic combination. The Lilitus can whip their friends to splash and draw a card, and obviously Blood for Blood and Masochistic Thoughts from the Lelus will provide a lot of ping damage as well, while still being able to heal through most of it from their twin link thing. As an added bonus, you'll be drawing cards like a madman while you do it. Between both sets of twins that's draw 6 discard 2, I think? And you need to top-deck two 4s on Lelu's Blood for Blood to make it happen? Pretty solid. 
You should certainly expect casualties, but with casualties, comes corpses! And probably tots! 
I've always defaulted to "hit it very hard" style Nekima, throwing out Lorelei, the Living Blade attacks as much as I could, but I wonder at the possibility of being more loose with the Hurl Corpse action. For one thing, once you've declared Shove Aside on the main attack, if you're not going to kill your target outright, the Hurl Corpse's triggers are better for the rest of the activation. Less accurate with less damage, but still. Also, the mental image of Nekima cutting down someone, and then hurling their corpse into their friend, and then potentially eating the hurled corpse herself on a Ram trigger, is just, so freaking awesome. Also it's quite a respectable amount of healing, potentially. 
Also, her "Ours!" Trigger on Hurl Corpse is after resolving, so you don't even need to hit to get the mask trigger off for AoE Stunned duels. Overall, it's underrated, I think.

My favorite quote from our local Neverborn player last week.  "You said you were interested in a Nekima Crew.  Play this one against him tonight.  Here's what everything does, except this guy.  I can't figure out why he's worth the cost.  You play him and figure out what I'm missing."

[Kharnage]

38 minutes ago, Cathaidan said:

My favorite quote from our local Neverborn player last week.  "You said you were interested in a Nekima Crew.  Play this one against him tonight.  Here's what everything does, except this guy.  I can't figure out why he's worth the cost.  You play him and figure out what I'm missing."

Is this in reference to Lelu?

[Cathaidan]

1 minute ago, Kharnage said:

Is this in reference to Lelu?

It was either a Lelu, or a Lilitu, or a something or other.  I haven't faced his Nekima crew yet, and was only half paying attention while getting ready for my game.  The comment was just funny enough that it stuck with me.

[Kharnage]

2 minutes ago, Cathaidan said:

It was either a Lelu, or a Lilitu, or a something or other.  I haven't faced his Nekima crew yet, and was only half paying attention while getting ready for my game.  The comment was just funny enough that it stuck with me.

Ahh! Yeah, the worth of Lelu isn't immediately obvious, mostly because he's not really meant to stand on his own, but it's not straightforward that that's the case. He needs a Lilitu sister to heal off of, and wants other models around him to share in his Masochistic Thoughts damage, so when you're looking at him like "hmmm, Ml 6 and Df 6 is cool, but a Young has Flight, Fly with Me, a better damage track, and positive flips to hit" the idea that voluntarily taking damage is actually the strongest part of his kit is a little strange xD the Good for a Laugh card draw is also fantastic. Having that unexpected just-the-right-card in hand can make or break a game. 

[Morgan Vening]

30 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

 Ahh! Yeah, the worth of Lelu isn't immediately obvious, mostly because he's not really meant to stand on his own, but it's not straightforward that that's the case. He needs a Lilitu sister to heal off of, and wants other models around him to share in his Masochistic Thoughts damage, so when you're looking at him like "hmmm, Ml 6 and Df 6 is cool, but a Young has Flight, Fly with Me, a better damage track, and positive flips to hit" the idea that voluntarily taking damage is actually the strongest part of his kit is a little strange xD the Good for a Laugh card draw is also fantastic. Having that unexpected just-the-right-card in hand can make or break a game. 

Just wanting to get this clear, but does "if a Heal effect would cause it to exceed this limit, any additional Healing is ignored (as though it did not occur)." from the first para on pg25 mean that Twinned Soul doesn't work if you started undamaged? Seems so, but I can see it being interpreted the other way too.

[Kharnage]

1 hour ago, Morgan Vening said:

Just wanting to get this clear, but does "if a Heal effect would cause it to exceed this limit, any additional Healing is ignored (as though it did not occur)." from the first para on pg25 mean that Twinned Soul doesn't work if you started undamaged? Seems so, but I can see it being interpreted the other way too.

I think you are correct, if she's full health, then she doesn't heal a linked brother. I haven't had an issue with it because I've just had the sisters whip each other for the card draw so they're lower than max HP, but that is a good point.