Facing new Titania - rant on how overloaded a kit can be

[katadder]

Detonate charges - requires you to get scheme markers down and not within 4 so possibility of staying together but not always
Breakthrough - if you push through together then the enemy is probably near or you have won already, so if they are near cannot score, so need them to spread, so spread your crew
Harness leylines - whilst possible again you are encouraging enemy into one area probably denying your scheming
Search Ruins - normally need to spread out
Dig - can require it if need to interact and not be engaged by entire enemy crew
Hold up their forces - needs to be 2 separate models so if all in a bunch this is less likely
Take Prisoner - again you need to spread the enemy out so if you are bunched you are probably denying yourself this
Power Ritual - unlikely 1 model no matter how schemey can do this as has to get to 3 seperate board corners in 5 turns (widow weaver maybe)
Outflank - as you say
Assassinate - if you are keeping your crew concentrated then so can they meaning you have to fight their entire crew to get to leader
Deliver - easy enough
Claim jump - requires you to be near centre, but not enemy, unlikely if you are all clumped
Vendetta - again similar to assassinate, depending on target, do you want their crew concentrated too?

So out of 13 if you are clumped you have made scoring a majority of them much harder as some require no enemy near, others allow enemy to clump to deny you (and if clumped then prepare for blasts). Also alot of shooting moderates are at 4 now, so i will just cheat in that for 1 less damage and keep severes to hit you again.
 

Strats
Turf War - need to spread out if you want 4, you cant protect them all as people need to keep heading out when you lose models
Idols - who knows where they will turn up, need to spread out
Plant Explosives - needs them 6" away from other markers including enemies so requires a fair bit of spreading out if you want to score
Reckoning - do as you wish

really think you need to rethink how you play some of these games if you think titania can protect the majority of her crew and you still score or at least score enough to win. if you are all hanging around titania then you give your opponent the rest of the board to play in, making it much more likely they will win by avoiding your deathball as you dont have to kill to win in malifaux outside of 1 strat and 2 schemes.

Not sure what timezone you are in, but get yourself on vassal and we can run through games  

[whodares]

41 minutes ago, katadder said:

Power Ritual - unlikely 1 model no matter how schemey can do this as has to get to 3 seperate board corners in 5 turns (widow weaver maybe)

There are actually more models than you might think that can do this. Any model with Leap or something like it is a decent contender.

1. Deploy the model in the corner so the marker can be placed within 3". A marker is a bit over 1" big, so say 4" deep already.
2. Turn 1 drop a marker, walk and Leap. Take Silurid (Mv 5), which gives you 5" move and 6" place, so you get around 12" movement from that. 16" deep already
3. Turn 2 double walk + Leap => you're close enough to the other corner now. You have some movement to spare, so place yourself accordingly for the power play next turn
4. Turn 3 drop a marker, leap and place the second marker => score first VP here
5. Turn 4 double walk + Leap => 10" walk + 6" leap + 1" model base => 21" to the third corner
6. Turn 5 Walk + Leap brings you in range of the corner, so drop your third marker

Mv 5 is not really that extraordinary on these types of models. You have First Mate who has 6" for example. Widow Weaver on the other hand actually can't do this solo. Her Place is a bit further, but at the start of the activation. She loses her Place on Turn 1 as there are no web markers yet. I generally run her for this though as she is decently proficient in combar and can protect the markers you drop.

Whether your opponent will allow you to do that is another thing

 

52 minutes ago, katadder said:

Assassinate - if you are keeping your crew concentrated then so can they meaning you have to fight their entire crew to get to leader

I disagree. Plenty of ranged attacks that don't have a gun symbol and your crew is rather good at killing stuff. I feel like Titania's crew can come out ahead when it becomes a brawl. Titania can also place the leader closer by if she hits her Trigger, which might speed up the process and eliminate the need to fight the entire crew for this. If the enemy master is a melee master, then there certainly isn't a problem.

55 minutes ago, katadder said:

Turf War - need to spread out if you want 4, you cant protect them all as people need to keep heading out when you lose models

If your opponent spreads out, you can win the fight in middle easier than he can. You can also try to only have dying models on the opposing side of the board, meaning deaths don't trigger the negation. If they try to go after your marker, you can send any semi-mobile model after them as they will be moving onto your part of the board which grants you an automatic advantage in actions required.

 

58 minutes ago, katadder said:

Idols - who knows where they will turn up, need to spread out

Depends on the board to be honest. If the centerline is clear, you have no problems getting a model to a marker.  Spreading out makes it easier to do, but it is not required. What if all markers drop in the center due to RNG being RNG. Sucks to be losing the middle then

 

1 hour ago, katadder said:

really think you need to rethink how you play some of these games if you think titania can protect the majority of her crew and you still score or at least score enough to win. if you are all hanging around titania then you give your opponent the rest of the board to play in, making it much more likely they will win by avoiding your deathball as you dont have to kill to win in malifaux outside of 1 strat and 2 schemes.

Depends on how you look at it. If your opponent spreads out with 2 models to run schemes and you build a killcrew to steamroll the rest of his crew, you will have killed almost everything he has in the middle by the end of Turn 3. This still leaves you plenty of time and models to run the schemes you need.

 

1 hour ago, katadder said:

Not sure what timezone you are in, but get yourself on vassal and we can run through games  

I'm from Belgium, which means UTC +1/+2 depending on Daylight Saving Time. Never used vassal though and I prefer to play miniature game on an actual table. I'm very attached to the miniature part of miniature game

[Angelshard]

@whodares I think you were right when you said you were looking at it from the wrong angle. It seems to me you want the power level to be lower than it is and instead of thinking  Titania is OP and needs a nerf, you should think some of the weaker crews needs a buff. I'm not saying Titania isn't strong, but I wouldn't call her even close to OP.

First off you haven't got any build in suits. This is a huge rescource drain, yes if your deck is hot it isn't a problem, but getting that crow 3 times in a row and on a card high enough to beat the opponent isn't something that just happens, even with injured on. If you're using stones for it then you'll be out of stones very, very fast. Cradle, which is the most efficient way to move her requires a mask and so does The land obeys if you want to use her free action twice.

Her other problem is that, apart from her (and, to a lesser extend Rougarou with IR), the fae crew lacks mobility. They can mitigate this somewhat by also hindering the opponents movement thanks to hungry land markers, but those  cost an AP to create and requires a duel that can fail, also if you really want to get the most out of them you can't afford more than 1-2 out of theme models or else you won't be placing enough markers  at the start of the game.

A fast crew with movement shenanigans can run circles around a Fae crew. Yes into thorns can pull you to a marker. But that requires you to be near the marker in the first place or the Fae spending an AP to create it.  

Also this crew has silch in the way of card manipulation. One of the strongest things in this game is the ability to maniuplate the deck, discard pile or hand. It also has no way to transfer or increase AP.

What it does it does really well, but calling the Fae OP is just wrong.

I'm afraid that if you think Titania is too effecient you will be having sreaming fits of rage the first time you run into Lucius.

 

Personally I think dreamer is a really good match against her. Lucid dreaming means that HtW will mean less and less as the game progresses. his Summoning puts the model in base contact with the target, so you don't have to walk through any markers.

Your nightmare is an insanely good action, for a mask or a stone you can place your summoned model and chompy into contact with something that has advesary, then that model dies. Your daydreams means dreamer doesn't have to walk himself and between incorporeal, serene countenance and protected he's very hard to take down. 

You also have Stitched together who are borderline insane. Sure they suffer a bit against HtW, but again thanks to Lucid Dreaming, you're more likely to hand out moderate than weak, even on a minus flip. Also they can nuke Hooded as they ignore his defensive tech.

If you're afraid of injured you can have an insideous madness upgraded with eldritch upgrade. It can hand out distracted from the backlines and thanks to incorporeal it can get to whereever you need to remove injured.

Finally, without being able to see the table it's had to offer advice on the specific game, but some things I noticed. 

1) You have a much more mobile crew than your opponent so I would probably have gone for search the ruins instead of Take Prisoner, especially as the waldgeist can push away, so you can't lock it in combat.

2) your opponent would have a very hard time scoring take prisoner on coppelius because of agile, so that's 2 VP he probably wouldn't get.

3) Even If you had activated and charged with Chompy you probably wouldn't have killed the waldgeist and your chompy would then be completely alone and isolated in the opponents crew, dying very quickly at the start of turn two. So even if you had done as you wanted to turn one it would have left you with a dead chompy. I think this move was way too agressive and additionally there wasn't any good reason for it. You can't score reckoning turn one, so killing the waldgeist wouldn't  give you any VP. To make it even worse you had the waldgeist as prisoner target, so harming, or worse, killing it, would be extremely detrimental to your game.

[(Keenan)]

On 6/4/2019 at 3:01 PM, dannydb said:

 there is stuff that is going to have to be errated and FAQ ed and twerked in the next few months probably. 

I sincerely hope things do get twerked. Great theme for a nightmare crew 

[Kharnage]

9 minutes ago, (Keenan) said:

I sincerely hope things do get twerked. Great theme for a nightmare crew 

Dreamer has been growing up a bit, hitting puberty, having *those* dreams. It's a bold creative move from Wyrd, but I'd respect it. He does have to fight Beckoners, Belles, and Nekima in Battle Lingerie, so it was inevitable, really. 

[Gnomezilla]

37 minutes ago, (Keenan) said:

I sincerely hope things do get twerked. Great theme for a nightmare crew 

Nobody needs to see Killjoy’s booty clap. 😖

[(Keenan)]

18 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Nobody needs to see Killjoy’s booty clap. 😖

But you know that thicc boi can. 

[katadder]

Will say pandora does a good one on titania. Combined with candy and doppelganger they all outrange titania. Also poltergeist (and therefore doppleganger) can remove plenty of the markers.

Had fun using it in my last game

[Maniacal_cackle]

Some games are virtually decided at the list stage, so maybe you're justified in your concerns.

Still, for a competitive game like this, I find it best to focus on what could be improved. You could have likely have improved at the list stage, but I'll ignore that as you may be model limited, and didn't know about the stats of your enemies anyway.

Some suggestions/questions after reading your post:

• Were you taking advantage of terrain? Most boards should have plenty of terrain that lets you protect your guys from ranged by blocking LOS.
• Why did you move LCB forward so much? The enemy master got to use three of their activations on attacking! That is going to kill pretty much anything.
• Look at how you spent your resources the first few turns vs. how your opponent did. You spent a lot of AP moving and soulstones to prevent damage. Your opponent got to focus all their resources on attacking.

The other day my friend put Dr Mcmourning (one of the tankiest master around) into melee range of my beater without any support. I activated my beater and dealt 6 damage to him, then next activation I moved my master and used two actions to deal 6 irreducible damage. That's what happens when you put your models in range of being attacked. They die.

From looking over the Nightmare crew, they should be playing the long game. Lucid Dream means that you can be removing 5+ bad cards a turn? By turns 3/4/5, your deck is going to be insanely powerful compared to your opponent's deck. Your models have lots of regeneration, meaning that the longer they live, the more health they regenerate in a game.

You should have been playing a game of cat and mouse, poking them down and forcing THEM to use their activations to move towards you. Your opponent literally couldn't score points without coming to you or crossing the board, so take advantage of that. The longer they screw around and fail to engage you, the more powerful your deck/crew becomes.

Not to mention you had power ritual, so had a way to score points without going near them.

Sure, the battle may have been slanted against you, and Titania might actually be a little bit overpowered compared to your crew (particularly for Reckoning, where killing power matters). But there's loads of stuff you can likely improve on. Games like Malifaux are all about positioning. Make your opponent waste activations walking towards you if they don't have a range advantage against you.

EDIT: Another tip - in Reckoning, your insignificant models can be super useful. If you use them as a 'screen', such that they're in between the rest of your models and your crew.... Then your opponent can either waste activations killing them (which doesn't get Reckoning points), or they can ignore them and then you get to send them in and attack. Learning to use models to take the hits so the rest of your crew can surge forward and counter attack is an important skill.

[Venomsuit]

On 6/6/2019 at 7:45 AM, whodares said:

There are actually more models than you might think that can do this. Any model with Leap or something like it is a decent contender.

1. Deploy the model in the corner so the marker can be placed within 3". A marker is a bit over 1" big, so say 4" deep already.
2. Turn 1 drop a marker, walk and Leap. Take Silurid (Mv 5), which gives you 5" move and 6" place, so you get around 12" movement from that. 16" deep already
3. Turn 2 double walk + Leap => you're close enough to the other corner now. You have some movement to spare, so place yourself accordingly for the power play next turn
4. Turn 3 drop a marker, leap and place the second marker => score first VP here
5. Turn 4 double walk + Leap => 10" walk + 6" leap + 1" model base => 21" to the third corner
6. Turn 5 Walk + Leap brings you in range of the corner, so drop your third marker

Mv 5 is not really that extraordinary on these types of models. You have First Mate who has 6" for example. Widow Weaver on the other hand actually can't do this solo. Her Place is a bit further, but at the start of the activation. She loses her Place on Turn 1 as there are no web markers yet. I generally run her for this though as she is decently proficient in combar and can protect the markers you drop.

Whether your opponent will allow you to do that is another thing

 

This math only works with zero terrain.