Bandersnatch - Shadow Hunting

[sebu]

Hi,

I'm relativly new to Malifaux in general (great game :)) and M3E and this might be a newbie question. But maybe due to language barriers I don't fully understand it. How does Shadow Hunting for Bandersnatch work?

I understand as soon as Crawl into Shadow is succesfull my Bandersnatch is Buried and the targed has the Shadow Lair Upgrade attached. Shadow Hunting allows my Bandersnatch to take Actions and draw range and draw LoS from enemy models with attached Shadow Lair Upgrade.

Does it mean I can take actions of my Bandersnatch from marked enemy model? Does this include Walk, Interact etc. Actions so that I can move the enemy model? Or does it mean that my Bandersnatch can move, interact by itself but for actions (Attack Action Venomous Strike) that needs range or LoS I can draw it from enemy model?

 

[Tapdancer]

The Bandersnatch is buried so it is essentially off the table.  When you activate the Bandersnatch you can take attack action from the enemy model, with an extended range,  but you cannot move or do other actions unless you unbury.

[Adran]

13 minutes ago, sebu said:

HI understand as soon as Crawl into Shadow is succesfull my Bandersnatch is Buried and the targed has the Shadow Lair Upgrade attached. Shadow Hunting allows my Bandersnatch to take Actions and draw range and draw LoS from enemy models with attached Shadow Lair Upgrade.

Does it mean I can take actions of my Bandersnatch from marked enemy model? Does this include Walk, Interact etc. Actions so that I can move the enemy model? Or does it mean that my Bandersnatch can move, interact by itself but for actions (Attack Action Venomous Strike) that needs range or LoS I can draw it from enemy model?

 

Firstly, my standard disclaimer, these are beta rules and they may change by release.

Shadow hunting allows the Bandersnatch to take actions whilst buried IF it started the activation buried. So you can't crawl into shadow and then straight away start attacking from that model.

It does not allow you to control the enemy model. What it does allow is to draw range and line of sight from the model with the upgrade. You can declare a walk action, or an interact action, but they won't do anything while you are buried because moving when you are not on the table does nothing, and dropping a scheme marker next to you whilst you are off the table also does nothing.

In reality, all it is going to do is make your venomous strike a 3" ranged attack drawn from the modle with the upgrade. Or drop a web anywhere within 6" of the model with the upgrade.

[sebu]

Awesome, thanks for the quick answer. Okay, fully unterstood

[CrimsonWraith]

An added note, Interacts that don’t drop scheme markers, such as Deliver a Message, have never been ruled one way or the other. FAQ maybe?

[solkan]

1 hour ago, CrimsonWraith said:

An added note, Interacts that don’t drop scheme markers, such as Deliver a Message, have never been ruled one way or the other. FAQ maybe?

What’s in any way special about an Interact that doesn’t require or specify base contact?

As common as informal actions like the one mentioned in Deliver a Message are used, it’s basically impossible to distinguish between range and measuring a specified distance limit.  You have to treat them as the same thing.

Edit:  Especially if this is an M3E rules question.

[Adran]

5 hours ago, CrimsonWraith said:

An added note, Interacts that don’t drop scheme markers, such as Deliver a Message, have never been ruled one way or the other. FAQ maybe?

Just worth pointing out, that the current wording of deliver a message is that a friendly model within 1" of the chosen model may take the interact action.

The Bandersnatch is not within 1" of the chosen model while its buried, so it can't take the action.

[CrimsonWraith]

^ my point. One says range and distance are synonymous, other says 1” isn’t a range. I wouldn’t try it, unless you’re  looking to argue.

Still hoping for a ruling, though.(As reference, I play Tara, Scion of the Void has a similar ability)

[frumpypigskin]

Any advance on this? How have people been playing it?

[Maniacal_cackle]

There are a couple things where you draw LOS and range from something else (like Reva and corpse markers or Bandersnatch and its shadow target).

There's a lot of oddities where it feels like those things SHOULD count as a substitute for the marker's position (for instance, stealth and targeting things from further away). It is a gap in the rules where nothing explicitly allows it. And since nothing breaks the game by not allowing it, I think leaning towards now allowing it makes more sense. Interact refers to 'base contact' and base contact's rules are:

Quote

Two objects are said to be in base contact with each other if their bases are physically touching (edge to edge or overlapping).

If Base Contact had a rule like "if models are within 0" of each other, they count as base contact" there'd be a much stronger argument for allowing the Bandersnatch to interact. EDIT: The rules have the opposite (an explicit thing that models can be within 0" and not in base contact).

Although technically I think it could take the interact action, it just couldn't do anything productive with it (but if for example your Bandersnatch is a take Prisoner target and your enemy has an ability that causes you to damage yourself when you interact).

My reading of it, anyway. It certainly feels like they intended something else, but there's probably not evidence to support that.

[Ogid]

On 1/25/2020 at 2:17 AM, frumpypigskin said:

Any advance on this? How have people been playing it?

Not sure if that's how everyone is doing it but in my case: Anything that requires base to base cannot be used while buried (there is no range there, the requisite is having both bases physically touching and bandersnatch's base isn't there). Anything with a range or "within range" can be measured from the model with the upgrade.

From the erules pg 13:

Quote

Two objects are said to be in base contact with each other if their bases are physically touching (edge to edge or overlapping).

...Any effect that references an object "within" a distance is talking about ranges.