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4thstringer

Getting in their faces fast (m3e)

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So I've been thinking about guild lists that get up into your opponents faces.  Mainly for things like cursed object, turf war and plant explosives, but also because that suits my playstyle.  It struck me recently that guild isn't too bad at this, with a couple exceptions 

Augmented- between the give out of fast from Hoffman, and the speed of the watchers and hunters, and even the bunches of 2" pushes you can make, this crew can move up pretty quickly .  If that wasn't enough, guardian throws can speed up anyone.

 

Elite- dependent on lucius, obeys and investigators (which pair delightfully with false witness), this crew is mid range for this I'd say.

Marshalls-imo the slowest bunch.  Only lone Marshall and lj herself buck this.

Witch hunters- Sonia herself doesn't mind lagging behind.  The handler helps get witchlings upfield, and the sanctioned spellcasters can move when they need to.  Sam is also deceptively speedy.

Family- the push when focusing makes this not a standard gunline, but still rather slow overall.

Frontier- much of theirs is how far they start upfield, and the Pathfinders little push.  

Journalists- kind of mixed again. The field reporters can really move, but this crew as a whole doesn't get going very fast.

Guard- mounted guard and queeg can do a lot of work to speed this crew up.  The Sarge has that +1 move bubble, which is nice too.  The mounted guard are especially interesting to me because if you use queegs push to get 2" up from a model, then place them on the other side of you, you are looking at guardian levels of speed.  And then a second can help you get further upfield.  Don't sleep on the dispatchers consolidate power to move upboard too.  I think this one (which is what got me thinking about this) is the one that could use the most care and practice before use.

 

Versatile- the pale rider can do similar things to the mounted guard in early turns.  Grimwell Has a decent push too 

 

Edit: I forgot the whole point of this.  

Am I wrong?  Tell me what I've missed! Or am I a crazy person?

 

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I read somewhere of a Guard list someone made that took two MGs and two executioners, with the aim to Ride With Me the Exes up to the enemy's face.

 

Id like to hear how that went down.

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I tried 2 x MG and 2 Exe+LLC but that was versus Yan Lo during one of his OP version. The Executionners killed one important model on turn 2 that got rezzed later. After this, they got tarpitted by Ashigarus and killed around turn 4.

Against a normal team, I believe that this will be quite impressive. Getting 2 executionners on the end of turn 1 in the middle of your team is not really a good start :) I would maybe hire only 1 executionner, summon the 2nd one and use the freed points to get a Juge in the team :

Dashel + totem
Judge
Mouned guard x 2
Executionner
That's 38 points
. You still have a few points for stones and either counter pick or specialized models.

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I'd hesitate to gi that way. Relying on summoning an Executioner when your ganeplan relies on one seems a bug risk. From memory you need a red joker, and even with the Judge's card cycling you're not guaranteed one.

Note haven't played the crew yet, this is just me thinking out loud.

45 points does seems like a lot though, however given you're only going to get five or six summons off in a game id be trying to keep Dashel alive, that might be all you need to make sure you have the suits to summon. Plus theres the looting mechanic to get a gew more.

Ok, i think I've  talked myself out of my crew build issue now ;)

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You need a 13 of ram or 1 soulstone for an executionner. If you do not have the 13, you will probably get the tanky construct to protect a little your executionner. If you really plan on rampage, You can enter Queeg to have a second line fighter who will support your executionner + summon.

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1 hour ago, le_wahou said:

You need a 13 of ram or 1 soulstone for an executionner. If you do not have the 13, you will probably get the tanky construct to protect a little your executionner. If you really plan on rampage, You can enter Queeg to have a second line fighter who will support your executionner + summon.

You also need a 5:ToS-Mask:to get the enemy scheme marker from Dispatcher.

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That's my biggest problem with daschel as designed.    I haven't played it a ton, but you almost have to take one of either 1. The judge, 2. A lawyer, 3 Lucius (with several elite models) just to feel secure in your summoning.   

 

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On 5/20/2019 at 12:57 PM, 4thstringer said:

That's my biggest problem with daschel as designed.    I haven't played it a ton, but you almost have to take one of either 1. The judge, 2. A lawyer, 3 Lucius (with several elite models) just to feel secure in your summoning.   

 

How many summons do you need to guarantee? Betwen Dashel, Queeg, a sergeant and the dispatcher it seems you should be able to get the proper suit or worst case stone for it to place an enemy marker or two. It's not going to let you spam shit but you could get an executioner or two out turns one or two. If you luck into a decent ram you might be able to meet the Tn off a friendly marker and get a couple of hounds or something.

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Getting an enemy scheme marker seems easy on paper with all those triggers but I've also struggled to get one down for a decent summon. Best chance is having a 6 of Masks (I legit seem to always have the 5 of Masks...) and using the Dispatcher to create one.

In terms of an ~in-yo'-fase~ early list I tried out:

Dashel + Dispatcher

2 Mounted Guard

2 Executioners

Queeg

Stewie

Only 2 stones left over (so hope for some corpses to loot).

Mounted guard activate near Queeg and push a bit to then pick up Executioner from 2" range and put them ~8" (2"+5"+40mm base) out of the deployment zone. Summon a Guild Sergeant. Queeg moves up to near the executioners, do a bit of focus -> fast shenanigans with Dash and Stewie and then you've got 2 Fast executioners with move 6, 8" forward of deployment zone that get a 3" push when they activate. Total threat for first AP charge of 19" when you consider their 2" melee range. (Heaven forbid they drop some scheme markers for Trail of Gore)

That was the plan anyway - of course I forgot/didn't read that Chiaki has a lure and Queeg got lured away and killed. No fast and no free push meant that I got stomped but I'm going to give it another go some time and see how it works.

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People underestimate how great loot their corpses is in making sure you can get cards in your hand from the start.  I've regularly been using 2 stones for cards to help get 13/12 for Executioners or Mounted.  That does require quite a bit of hiding of Dashel and Quueg but that is sort of my play style with them (using 'Guard' for turf war primarily).  I am also quite happy a couple of dogs going out to pick up corpses before they die for me to resummon on a later turn if needs be (however inefficient that probably is!).

I agree with you on guild and speed, especially the list you have already.  For example in my most regular Master/Crews

Dashel/'Guard' = I usually start with two mounted, and then think of Rifleman/2 hounds or double rifleman with hounds being summoned as first port of call.

Hoffman/'Augmented' = I usually start with double Watcher and Double Hunter, then build from there.  If board terrain is sparse then I do have to say Watchers get dropped.

Lucius/"Elite" = I find two Lawyers help to speed up most people, but I do find Pale Rider comes into this crew more times than not. 

Sonnia/"witch hunter" = I'm usually using her for Corrupted Idols and while yes I sometimes get Stalkers up early if terrain allows, not usually using speed in this crew in fairness (it does have it).

 

I think there has been quite a bit about the slowness of Guild compared to other factions.  I think this is more about our lack of 'place' abilites, but I think this is part of the jack of all trades, master of none nature of guild.  Most models can flex, but they are never going to be 'the best' in their field.  What we do have as listed is raw speed, and when we do get a place it turns out pretty strong like Lady J :).

 

Only thing I would say that Watcher on a board with suitable cover to hide is worth the 4+1ss due to its flight/place.  That is really dependent on board as even with Arm+1 it dies to a stiff breeze.

Hope this helps?  Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, HowNot2Wargame said:

People underestimate how great loot their corpses is in making sure you can get cards in your hand from the start.  I've regularly been using 2 stones for cards to help get 13/12 for Executioners or Mounted. 

Sadly you can`t do that anymore

 

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Just to clarify, there was a time when you could spend any number of soulstones for cards each turn. Now you can only spend a single soulstone to draw cards per turn.  

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1 hour ago, Anaris said:

Marshall can be pretty fast with a domadore to gain an action then declare every opponent UNDEAD and gaining FAST.

Am I wrong?

Kinda, maybe.

It doesn't require Domadores to do anything to give Undead. Just be within 5". Jury and Exorcist can also do it at range, with a test (False Accusation) into combats, so it's not hard to give it out.

And it's only Death Marshals (the 5SS minion) that gains Fast. It's good to be clear if you're talking about Death Marshals specifically, or Marshals as a Keyword.

Side note, it's good to remember that Death Marshals (and Emissary and Horseman) are Undead, so Domadores can Command Corpse. Also, Domadores can Command Corpse any Living enemy within 5". Their versatility is pretty awesome. 

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33 minutes ago, Mikes said:

Domadore rules are awesome. It's just a shame their models bear no resemblance whatsoever to the rest of the keyword.

I find the models to be gorgeous. Since fluff-wise they’re Spanish resurrectionists that dance to make their necromancy work, the sculpts match that idea completely. And honestly, another sword/gun wielding person in a duster coat would be boring. Domadores (and Jury) add some much needed flair to the Keyword. 

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Back to the topic of getting places fast:

ive been rumbling through my faction cards. I need a model that will provide a decent push or move to another model in my Marshall crew. The pale rider has the Ride with Me action, which is great, but he is too expensive. Is there a 7ss or less model that will give me a decent push, move, place, etc?

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Mounted Guard has 'Ride with Me' as well.  

Dashel with Queeg can allow Guard models to gain Fast as a free action by taking a wound (if near Dispatcher), and if you add +1 MOV from Sergeant your crew can really cover some ground. 

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3 hours ago, explorator said:

Mounted Guard has 'Ride with Me' as well.  

Dashel with Queeg can allow Guard models to gain Fast as a free action by taking a wound (if near Dispatcher), and if you add +1 MOV from Sergeant your crew can really cover some ground. 

Yeah, that sounds good, but need a cheaper model with Marshall keyword or Versatile, or 6ss or less since I’d have to add the 1ss tax. I’m surprised that the Lone Marshall doesn’t have ride with me. Need a way to get Lady Justice across the board turn 1 to do some punishment. 

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