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So is 3rd not launching with a new starter box?


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So i found back in 2nd the two player 'sanitarium breakout' box was a great place to get friends into the game. You got a basic rulebook, 2 mini crews of unique models, two measuring tapes, two fate decks and it was a well put together series of scenarios to slowly teach the game. I bought a few as gifts and used my own to demo the game to friends and it worked very well. Now the preorder stuff for 3rd is coming out and i've seen the core rules, faction books, a few crew boxes and a few fate boxes but no starter.

Does this mean the previous one is still intended for use, anothers coming down the road or there simply isn't one? I'm only speaking from personal experience but if i told someone they had to blindly pick a crew box, buy the core rules, maybe the faction book, a measuring tape and a deck of cards then hope someone else did as well to try to see if they like the game they would give it a hard pass as that would seem like too much investment on something they might not enjoy.

 Now i personally enjoy it and will have plenty of models from 2nd alone to teach friends to play but it just looks like i either missed an announcement or they are getting rid of a really cool, easy and affordable way to give people a taste of the game and theres a lot of skirmish games i've seen go ignored because they expect you to just drop a bunch of money down and hope you can find someone who did the same and that seems like a step backwards for what in 2nd was considered one of the best entries into a skirmish game period.

 

 So did i miss it like an idiot or is there actually no 2 player starter for 3rd?

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Didn't the m2e starter appear years after m2e dropped or am I just senile? I think the multitude of two-faction boxed sets that now exist would be complemented well by a starter kit with a couple of cheap decks and startup rules. The old set was annoying for those of us who just liked the models but had all the other stuff. This sollution would lead to a more modular starting experience.

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45 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Didn't the m2e starter appear years after m2e dropped or am I just senile? I think the multitude of two-faction boxed sets that now exist would be complemented well by a starter kit with a couple of cheap decks and startup rules. The old set was annoying for those of us who just liked the models but had all the other stuff. This sollution would lead to a more modular starting experience.

Putting out a version of the rulebook that comes with a fate deck might help alleviate the whole "so i gotta go here for this and here for that" startup issue, but it feels like someone starting fresh might still find themselves a bit hard up if they get the wrong core box. Like i've preordered the Youko box and i'm an existing TT player so have other models to support it but that box really isn't beginner friendly at all but how would a beginner know that when its just one of half a dozen boxes labelled 'core box' at the start of the new edition?

 

Maybe some kind of 'start collecting' style deal on the Wyrd store could help. Put two of the core boxes that are more beginner friendly together with two decks and the rules or something.

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22 minutes ago, dope_danny said:

Putting out a version of the rulebook that comes with a fate deck might help alleviate the whole "so i gotta go here for this and here for that" startup issue, but it feels like someone starting fresh might still find themselves a bit hard up if they get the wrong core box. Like i've preordered the Youko box and i'm an existing TT player so have other models to support it but that box really isn't beginner friendly at all but how would a beginner know that when its just one of half a dozen boxes labelled 'core box' at the start of the new edition?

 

Maybe some kind of 'start collecting' style deal on the Wyrd store could help. Put two of the core boxes that are more beginner friendly together with two decks and the rules or something.

I didn't mean masterboxes but the henchman hardcore style boxes with 4 + 4 models from two different factions. The webstore could bundle those with a starter rules box at a slight discount or something. There is guild + neverborn, arcanists + gremlins and ressers + tt so most factions are represented. Bundling rules with master boxes could also work of course but those are rarely balanced for initial play, the smaller crews seemed good as starting options to get right into the game.

50 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

Their cards are in book 3 at least.

Yeah, I just meant that m2e also launched without any form of starter box.. It would be nice with a better option this time around, hence the idea for a "pick your own starter" kind of bundle with the current henchman boxes. I haven't kept up to speed in the beta, I guess they are versatile still? Any hope that those crews are actually dual faction as well or is that option completely removed from m3e?

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28 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I haven't kept up to speed in the beta, I guess they are versatile still? 

Yeah, they were made Versatile.  Not quite as flexible as being M2E Mercenary, but I'm not sure how much cross faction use those models really saw...

28 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Any hope that those crews are actually dual faction as well or is that option completely removed from m3e?

Dual faction is still a thing that exists in 3rd edition.  There was some shuffling of allegiances (most of which the late 2nd edition books were telegraphing).

There have been a few threads discussing how to adapt the starter booklet for 3rd edition, and a few threads discussing what changes to make for henchman hardcore as well.  After the announcement that there's going to be henchman hardcore events at GenCon, I've been waiting to see what Wyrd's ideas for it are.

 

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Hasn’t one of our henchmen already lightly re-written the scenarios for M3e rules? An awkward solution only because the starter set was better for player communities without an existing meta (any henchman happily jumped on the opportunity to match newbie to crew box).

1 hour ago, solkan said:

Yeah, they were made Versatile.  Not quite as flexible as being M2E Mercenary, but I'm not sure how much cross faction use those models really saw...

I think I was the only known instance after people decided M2E Angel Eyes’ ability to use soulstones didn’t compensate for her cost. Bloodwretch in a Hoffman ‘Gun turret’ crew was very niche and very, very satisfying.

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  • 2 months later...

I’m one of the people who got pulled into the game through the M2E starter set (specifically a copy my brother had bought and painted up).

IMO, it would be a huge mistake not to do some kind of M3E starter box somewhere down the line. Maybe not right away, but preferably in the foreseeable future. Malifaux is not the easiest game to get into (even for a lapsed miniatures gamer like myself), so having a way to ease new players in is priceless.

It’s also a good way to show just how unique the Malifaux game and world is. I can still remember looking at the “Black Blood” ability on the Neverborn unit cards and thinking “what is this?” and then rushing off to learn more.

As for the form of said starter set, they could just update the M2E box and call it a day (that would be a reasonable solution IMO), but I’d really love a totally new set. New units, two new fate decks, new rulers, new everything. I’d also really love it if they included a few pieces of thematic terrain.

I’m not sure what I’d like the theme of the set to be. It’s hard to beat “Guild sanitarium workers vs. Neverborn inmates/rescuers” for something that screams Malifaux. Maybe something involving Showgirls. That would certainly make it stand out from the pack.

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For what it's worth, I know during the beta there were informal discussions about what you'd need to change in the starter scenarios to cope with the rule and model changes.  I don't remember if the discussion was in the beta forum or not, though...

When the models came out originally, the minions were written they way they were so you'd be able to avoid saying "Don't look at this part yet, we'll get to that later."  That's a bit more difficult to do with the revised models.

For instance, M2E Bloodwretch and M2E Order combat actions didn't have triggers on them.  The M3E do.

Edit:  Terrain in a starter set is tricky.  Guild Ball sells a terrain box as a separate add on, last I checked, and I think on their 4th 2-player starter set Corvus Belli upgraded from heavy paper to 3mm cardboard but increased the price.

What makes me sad, though, is that the perfect and wonderful card decks in the M2E starter pack now have incorrect (or incomplete) rules on their jokers.  :( 

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Currently how I get new players into the game is:

* do a battle with two minions against two minions, first to clear the board. Just to learn combat.

* do a scenario with a henchmen leader and three minions each, objectives of one strategy + one scheme (plant explosives/assassinate works really well).

* teach them about scheme markers.

* do a proper game.

That allows for a few nice intro games before working up to a proper game. May want to repeat the second stage a few times if they find that easier.

A starter set would be ideal, but this works for me in the meantime! The key is to not overwhelm them with lots of different models at once. If they only have to learn two models (henchmen + three identical minions), the core rules of the game are very doable.

In general, I find it easy(ish) to get people to try the game, as the cost of entry (one crew box) is so low if you can lend them everything else (and for the intro game, we usually find someone to lend them some models).

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I absolutely agree on that general method of introducing new players to the game. However, it requires an experienced player who’s willing and able to set all that up.

In fairness, the different Malifaux communities seem to be extraordinarily welcoming and helpful towards new players, but it’s still a fairly big assumption. In my brother’s and my case, for example, we didn’t know anyone else who played Malifaux, so we had to get all the materials ourselves. Having the starter set on hand was a huge help.

This reminds me, that I also think a starter set should include a cardboard counter sheet with a number of printed 30mm scheme/corpse/whatever markers as well as two+ 50mm markers.

 

Regarding terrain: I would personally be completely happy with a couple of fold-and-glue paper buildings (in fact, my first games were played using 80’s era Citadel “Townscape” paper buildings – see picture).

The full bonanza of a playmat and plastic buildings (a la GW’s Killteam starter) would be nice, but I fear that the price would become prohibitive. The upcoming Marvel: Crisis Protocol (link to a description of contents) is a better comparison.

That has a MSRP of $99.95, which is a bit on the pricy side for what you might want for Malifaux, but it also seems to have full plastic terrain and more stuff than you’d need for Malifaux in general, so it might be possible to cut a couple of corners and end up around the $80 level.

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22 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Currently how I get new players into the game is:

* do a battle with two minions against two minions, first to clear the board. Just to learn combat.

* do a scenario with a henchmen leader and three minions each, objectives of one strategy + one scheme (plant explosives/assassinate works really well).

* teach them about scheme markers.

* do a proper game.

That allows for a few nice intro games before working up to a proper game. May want to repeat the second stage a few times if they find that easier.

A starter set would be ideal, but this works for me in the meantime! The key is to not overwhelm them with lots of different models at once. If they only have to learn two models (henchmen + three identical minions), the core rules of the game are very doable.

In general, I find it easy(ish) to get people to try the game, as the cost of entry (one crew box) is so low if you can lend them everything else (and for the intro game, we usually find someone to lend them some models).

The tutorial book was really one of the best examples i've found. You go 'heres one minion vs one and how attacking and flipping works' to 'heres two and how activations work' and so on to end up in a 4v4 objective based game. Compared to stuff like Monsterpocalypse or kill team where its basically 'heres the rules, figure it out' it lacks that ease of engagement. Meanwhile stuff like Malifaux's starter got people into it in my area who never touched a none card game more complex than shadespire before.

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