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GrumpyGrandpa

Attack Buried vs Sputtering Exhaust

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Quick question, which I couldn't find an answer to.

Sputtering Exhaust says that the model gets Concealment - What if you attack a buried model with said abillity? Does it still have Concealment?

 

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I don’t even bother checking sight lines to a model carrying Sputtering Exhaust if it’s on the table, so I would permit using it by buried models. I do not know if that is RAW though.

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2 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

I don’t even bother checking sight lines to a model carrying Sputtering Exhaust if it’s on the table, so I would permit using it by buried models. I do not know if that is RAW though.

I just checked, and it's unclear.

The only relevant line appears to be
"All models inside the Aura’s area, including what is generating the Aura, are affected by the Aura as long as they stay inside the area and remain in Line of Sight of the generating object."

Depends on whether the underlined is inclusionary or exclusionary. If an ability caused a model to not be able to draw LOS, would their auras still work, or not? 

Definitely needs to be ruled on (unless someone can find a more definitive answer). Because it's not just Sputtering Exhaust. Sensei Yu's Brutal Sensei, Yan Lo's Demise ability, Sun Quiang's Healing Draughts, and that's only a quick look at one Faction.

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The rulebook doesn’t explicitly say such (as far as I can see) but there does not exist range or line of sight to Buried models.  There can’t be because those models aren’t on the table.  (This is an argument as old as 3rd edition 40k players arguing over shooting at reserved models using attacks that ignore line of sight).  Same for placing in base contact or any reference to direction concerning the Buried model.

If you’re Buried, you can’t be within range or line of sight of an Aura, not even your own.  Mechanically I don’t think the alternative is at all feasible.

 

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Buried models may only be targeted with abilities and actions which specifically state that they may target buried models. (Pg. 33 of the pdf)  Sputtering Exhaust does not specifically state that it may effect buried models.  

Off the board, LoS, etc. doesn't matter.  The ability must specifically state it can effect buried models, so it cannot effect buried models.

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5 minutes ago, Cathaidan said:

Buried models may only be targeted with abilities and actions which specifically state that they may target buried models. (Pg. 33 of the pdf)  Sputtering Exhaust does not specifically state that it may effect buried models.  

Off the board, LoS, etc. doesn't matter.  The ability must specifically state it can effect buried models, so it cannot effect buried models.

Sputtering Exhaust does not target anything. Auras affect models in area and LoS of generating object (p.30). 

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Just now, Scoffer said:

Sputtering Exhaust does not target anything. Auras affect models in area and LoS of generating object (p.30). 

It is also a :aura2, which does not affect models which are not within 2" of the model generating Sputtering Exhaust.  Buried models are removed from the table, though they are still considered to be in play.  (Pg. 33 of the pdf.)  If you aren't on the table, you aren't within 2" of a model generating Sputtering Exhaust.

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25 minutes ago, Cathaidan said:

It is also a :aura2, which does not affect models which are not within 2" of the model generating Sputtering Exhaust.  Buried models are removed from the table, though they are still considered to be in play.  (Pg. 33 of the pdf.)  If you aren't on the table, you aren't within 2" of a model generating Sputtering Exhaust.

This is the main question: is a model still within 2" of itself, when it is not on the table?

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4 hours ago, Scoffer said:

This is the main question: is a model still within 2" of itself, when it is not on the table?

I misunderstood.

Considering it that way...

According to a strict reading of the rules, yes, you are still in the concealment granted by Sputtering Exhaust.  Models within the area and that have line of sight are affected by the aura.  (Pg. 30 of the pdf).  Models always have a line of sight to themselves.  (Pg. 16 of the pdf).  Models are always within their own area.  (Pg. 30 of the pdf).  Nothing within the Bury Rules state that being buried removes auras or alters them in any way, nor does it prevent you from drawing a LoS to yourself.  (Pg. 33 of the pdf).  Concealment is a thing that a model either has or it doesn't have; while it is normally gained by drawing LoS through terrain, the rules specifically state that game effects can generate it outside of concealing terrain.  (Pg. 36 of the pdf).  Nothing stops it from being generated, nothing overrides the rules on being within your own aura, therefore it applies.  (In order for Bury to apply to Auras it would have to read, "Buried models cannot be affected by any Actions or Abilities that do not specifically affect Buried models."  As it makes a point of saying "cannot be the target" and Auras have no "target", it would still apply.)

By the spirit of the rules, no, you are not in concealment granted by Sputtering Exhaust.  This is two fold; the first being that concealment typically applies to lines of sight which are drawn, which are not drawn against buried models.  (And they generally are created by terrain or abilities which generate some form of obscuring cloud of something: dust clouds, exhaust, etc.)  The second being the idea that nobody cares if you're spurting out black smoke while in a pine box (or in an extra-dimensional space next to Tara) things that hit you in that box would still hit because you're not obscured within the exhaust.  (You are, after all, exactly in the spot where they put you.)

 

At least, that's my reading of the rules. 

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