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M3E Sandeep Tactical breakdown

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So with the beta at the end and a release data for M3E announced I though Id get the ball rolling on Sandeep for this addition. 

 

now this does come with the disclaimer that all this is correct as of the time of writing (e.g end of Beta) rather than the printed rules, and there could be tweaks between what I've said here and the final version. 

It also comes with the disclaimer that while I've played something in the ball park of 20-30 games with Sandeep throughout the Beta its been against a fairly small meta (I mean I've yet to play vs Guild once!) and so there may be things I've not come up against. but I still hope my experiences and knollage of the master of elemental is worth while to at least get the ball rolling on m3e tactical discussions 

 

So without further Ado on with the Tactica for Sandeep and his academics and Elementals

 

Mantras

So the Academics Key Mechanics is Mantras. These are abilities that essentially read Mantra X: when this model or a elemental  (the gamin) within 6 inches takes a concentrate (the new focus) action, you may do X

now every academic including Banasuva and Kandara have there own Mantras which means that the crews have to strike a balanced of getting the right blend of Mantra's for the Elementals and enough elementals  to benefit and trigger the mantras. the other thing to make note of is that X is part of the aura's name, which means that you can trigger multiple different mantra's when an elemental focuses.

 

So the first thing to point out is the importance of concentrate in m3e. for people who have yet to play the new addition, the changes to manipulative (negative to hit if not activated) terrifying (you now take the dual every time you target something with terrifying), Shooting in to combat (negative to hit) and the increase prevalence of butterfly jump (pritty much every never born player is going to have 2 models with it) as well as the changes to focus  (it no longer going at end of turn) means that in quite a few situations its better to focus and then attack with said focus, rather than just getting in 2 swings in my opinion, especially if  you can trigger a mantra or two by doing it.

 

so lets now look at the models that make up the crew in question, starting with Sandeep himself.

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Model Breakdown: Academics

Sandeep

Sandeep has a number of abilities that help keep him safe, and essentially suit his role as a backfield summoner this addition.  for people who played sandeep melee beat stick last addition, there going to be disappointed as his suitability and his melee prowess and damage out put have both been reduced. however he still has arcane shielding +2 which can give him a little bit of protection as well as Guru, which allows him to draw LOS and range from other academics within 6 for his ranged attack and tactical actions.  This means that sandeep ideally wants to be sat approximately 6 inches behind 2-3 academics who in turn can be sat approximately 6 inches behind the elemental. He also has shouting Orders (academics) which means that academics can focus as a free action (the new 0 actions) at the cost of discarding a card, which considering the potential card draw which i'll come to later can mean that the academics can focus and then still have 2 actions for walking and attacking with at the expensive of their own free actions. his last ability mantra is that a model within 2 takes 1 damage. sadly this doesn't get triggered an awful lot as the elementals tend to be about 12 inches in front of sandeep in an ideal world and you don't realy want to be putting sandeep up within 2 inches of the bad guys.

in terms of abilities sandeep has a average melee attack with reasonable damage out put with a fairly decent inbuilt trigger which allows you to look at the top x cards of your deck depending on the number of elementals within LOS and put them back any order before drawing a card. however its no where near where you want sandeep, and its best thought of as sandeep's last resort. ideally, you should never be in a position to have to use this as the bad guys will be blocked off by the academics and elementals in front of sandeep. 

Sandeeps ranged attack is slightly above average stats (its not on par with a dedicated ranged master) and ignores friently fire for elementals, meaning you can support your front line golem fairly well. it also has 2 fairly good triggers allowing you to either push your elementals within 3 of the target up to 2 inches or stunning the target (stunned models can't declare triggers and free actions count towards their action limit)

 

He also has 3 tactical actions.

The first one allows you to summon gamin once per turn (almost all summoning now is once per turn, but you can summon multiple models) essentially needing a 3 of tomes + the combined gamin's cost.  The summoned gamin come in with an upgrade that gives them slow when it attaches and the with our powers combined ability which allows you to replace the gamin with this upgrade and 2 other gamin of the same type, with a golem of the same type (so fire gamin becomes fire golems, ice gamin become ice golems, metal gamin become metal golems and wind and poison gamins become sad because they don't have golems (yet..... hopefully)) this can mean that if you can fit 4 gamin of two different types in your crew and then summon the same gamin, you can have 2 golems ready to kick ass and take names at the bottom of turn 1.  I'd recommend people who are looking to play sandeep have a good long read on the replace rules and understand how they all work, as quite a few of my opponents have been surprised by golems turning up in somewhere they didn't expect.  

His next tactical action needs a 7 of any suit and allows you to push a elemental within 6 up to 2 inches in any direction before they take an non free action. 

 

his last tactical action is a free action that can target friendly elementals only. models within 2 take 2 damage and said elemental then dies, triggering its demise ability. this action is especially good with poison gamin who then do a further damage and a poison or a wind gamin who can place a model with in 8 anywhere within 4 inches of itself. it also has a trigger to draw a card. while not a free action you want to be doing every turn, can be destructive when it needs to be

 

Overall this makes sandeep a solid Summoner who can summon some powerful models thanks to our powers combined, and a great scheam runner in a wind gamin. just be aware you can't interact with models you summon.

 

Banasuva

Banasuva is the model that has probably changed the most since M3E in terms of role, turning from the recurable cruse missile in m2e to a versatile support model, with a decent damage output at both range and melee. however banasuva has no defensive tech outside of being immune to fire, and fairly average defensive stats and sadly sandeep can't summon him back once he has gone.  This make him best thought of as one of the 2nd line models, far enough forward that he can still support the gamin with his mantra and free action, but far enough back he has a bit of protection against the evil's of the world that want to kill him. Being both a elemental and a academic like kandara he has both a mantra and trigger other mantra's when he focuses 

as for his mantra, it triggers the demise ability of said elemental which other than kandara all current gamin and golems have. (i guess banasuva secretly doesn't support his wife) this is a very powerful effect as metal, ice and fire gamin (banasuva's own demise ability can put down any of these tokens) and golems all benefit from their respective tokens, (banasuva's own demise ability can put down any of these tokens) poison gamins put out a nice pulse of damage and poison and wind gamins can place a model within 8 within 4 of itself. 

 

His melee and ranged attack are both solid in their own right, and with flurry he can be used offensively if needed.

 

He also now has Toss which is a powerful tool for throwing other gamin and academics where they need to be, however I've often been sad its not a claw attack in order to charge at an model and toss it over tearing it apart. 

 

his only tactical action is a free action which is an "obey" of friendly elementals, it only needs a 6 rather than sandeep's 7 but it also doesn't come with the 2 inch push.

 

Kandara

Kandara is in my opinion one of the lynch pins of a sandeep crew and is always the first buy in my crew. she is quite quick and has the agile ability which makes her a good scheam runner, she has the best mantra in the crew in my opinion in draw a card which leads to an increadable amount of card draw with a decent number of gamin (I've quite often ended turn 1 with a hand full of face cards) some nice defensive tech in Serene Countenance (enemies are on negatives to hit her) and 2 attacks that without putting out serious damage can stagger enemy models, making it harder to get to your back line support tools.  She also has I've got your back which enables her to pull other models out of combat to stand next to her, which is useful if something pesky is tying up your golems from where they need to be or pulling sandeep and banasuva out of trouble if something nasty tries to kill them.   be aware though that she is the lynch pin of your crew so if she goes down it will be harder to keep the cards needed for the gang to work flowing, so i'd keep her behind the front lines supporting the rest of the crew, and running her off to do schemes only when the situation allows/demands. 

 

Kudra

Kudra is one of the 2 front line model along side the SVG the academics bring with above average defensive stats, butterfly jump and a built in shielded. Her mantra of shielding one combo's quite nicely with the golems armour (as you can essentially make it that they have to take more than 3 damage in order to to take a hit) as well as helping keeping her safer as well as a decent melee attack that does damage and poison with a built in onslaught trigger (alternative trigger being infect for extra poison), as well as furious charge which allows to to charge multiple times (useful if your original target dies or has squealed/butterfly jumped away) she also has an o.k ranged attack and a attack to make enemies take move to where you need them to be.  she also offers a little additional support for elementals with a short ranged AOE heal.

 

she is a model I've found I've left on the sidelines. she isn't as tanky as the golems, although not relying entirely on damage reduction in order to survive does mean if people load up on irraduceable damage then she has some suvivablity, however I've found that I've replaced her with a silent one in my crews as it provides ice pillars for the ice golem to use as well as a better heal (generally people try to kill one to 2 models at a time in the meta I've found rather than doing AOE damage which kudra means for the time being she is sat on the side lines.

 

Shastar Vidiya Guard

Just like Kudra this is another front line academic with some support aspects. While Kurda is focused on defensive support, the SVGs hand out extra movement between follow my path and its mantra, both giving out 2 inch moves/pushes. it also comes with a shielded and hard to kill, again being semi survivable with decent defensive stats. as well as a know the warrior ability which allows you to draw a card if you cheat fate in an opposed dual with the enemy. like Kudra it has a good melee attack with an armour piercing trigger and a free shoot even though engaged trigger.  this is another model that I've found has just missed out making the crew in recent times, partly because of the power i guess of the wind gamins demise ability/focusing within 6 of banasuva. again probably a model i'd bring if i knew I was going up vs something that ignored the armour of the golems. Being a minion these days though does make it good at carrying upgrades, with it being a good candidate for both magical training improving its defensive stats, and Soulstone Cache to get back stones.

Oxfordian Mage

The last academic of the crew currently, the oxfordian mage is the best support model in the crew mantra that heals 2 as well as a AOE condition removal when friendly models activate within 5 of it. this is an academic that I've found unable to cut, with the healing being great to keep the golems alive to keep on beating. while its attacks are nothing to write home about with average stat and damage they also have the realy interesting Elemental Transference trigger which allows the mage to swap out various effects for another  (scrap marker in base contact, burning or poison 2 or slow) this makes it a great counter pick in to something like kaeris or mcmorning or someone who likes scrap like meifeng or hoffman. it also supports the fire and metal golems quite well as they generate the fire and the scrap in order to get this going off.  again being a minion, it carries and upgrade well although already comes with counter spell so doesn't get the full benefit of magical training.

The other thing to be aware of with the Oxfordian mage is the non interaction between with our powers combined and Arcane Conduit (the AOE condition removal). as replacing reattaches the golems upgrade giving it slow, and then the golem carries on the same activation, rather than starting a new one. this means that the golems can't remove the slow they get from the condition, even if they are stood next to the mage. 

 

 

 

 

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Elementals

The other half of sandeeps crew, the elementals are the beaters of the crew, especially the golems who have armour (or pusdo armour in the case of the fire golem) do large amounts of damage.  however they do very little outside of hit hard so need the academics to support them and keep them ticking over.  they tend to have low to average defensive stats and so rely on their armour and the healing from the rest of the crew in order to get full use out of them.

The gamin on the other hand a cheap minions that either can be use to set up their transformation in to golems, are repetitively cheap damage dealers, or scheam runners. they are low wound models though and can't realy be relayed upon on there own.

 

Ice Gamin and Golem 

Ice Gamin are cheap and cheerful models that can hand out slow on tomes on both their attacks as well as providing shielding to models, most easily to December models. they also come with a single point of armour. 

Ice Golems are slow but tanky and hard hitting models with lots of synergies with Ice pilers. 

Supported with Ice pilers they can heal large amounts of health with their free action create incredibly dangerous areas of hazardous terrain and have attacks that do huge damage, well beyond anything the academics can do. however unlike the other two golems they need a lot of support as they have no way to create these Ice pilers on their own.  while they are the most powerful golems in my opinion, they do need dedicated support, weather that banasuva following it around in order to provide them when it focuses, or hiring raspy/silent one to create these without exposing bansuva. 

 

Metal Gamin and Golem

Metal gamin and Golems are much more mobile thanks to the use of ride the rails. the gamin can also use magnetism to generate pushes towards scrap and constructs as needed. The golems on the other hand can use off the rails to push through opposing models creating havoc by breaking through lines and pushing models away from the other more vulnerable parts of the crew. 

The metal gamin can also give models shielding, most easily constructs. 

Unlike the Ice golem that can heal though, the metal golem can give itself shielded which while doesn't help vs irreducible damage can make the metal golem almost immune to models with no way of cracking though its armour and shielding.  the Vent steam action not only provides concealment which can aid friendly models vs ranged heavy crews, it also likes the Ice golem creates hazardous terrain, and can even do the action for free off a trigger off its attack. while the Metal golem, doesn't quite have the same raw damage output of the Ice or Fire golem or does it hand out conditions such as slow or burning like the other two golems. the metal golem is still quite a force to be re conned with, and its ability to break though lines can make it a good tool for getting to backfield models that are less likely to have the defensive of front liners.  While the golem does need a scrap marker in order to get the shielding from its free action, thanks to the walking forge ability which means that the metal gamin and golem drop scrap at the end of their activation meaning as long as opponents don't bring scrap removal a metal golem can be fairly self relent to keep itself alive with potentially shielding 4 of its own activation. however this does mean that the metal golem will often have to be the first model you activate in order to get full use out of the shielding. 

 

Fire Gamin and Golem

Fire Gamin and Golems are incredibly destructive able to put out quite a large amounts of burning on crews. its flaming body ability also makes it immune to armour Piercing triggers. however it also makes them incredibly vulnerable to dispel magic and rebel yell as if their burning can be removed then they lose there damage reduction instantly. 

while fire gamin can remove pyre markers in order to heal and give them selves burning, the golem requires either standing in a pyre marker, drawing flame off other models or hitting consistently with their melee actions in order to keep their own burning high. as the burning is reduced when the damage is taken off the fire gamin/golems are reliant on banasuva, Kaeris or Carlos Vasquez in order to generate pyre markers.  this often puts them at odds with ice gamin and golems who require ice pilers to work and crews will be hard pressed to squeeze the 2 golems, ice pillar and pyre marker generation in to a crew unless both golems end up close together followed closely by bansuva and then using the concentrate action to generate these markers.

the golem however does bring shock waves and scheme marker removal to the crew, which can be valuable, their vulnerability to condition removal makes them a lot more fragile that the other two golems. 

Poison Gamin

Poison Gamin are in an odd place as they don't realy have much support from the rest of the crew and are realy most useful for their demise ability. while they have o.k attacks they have no way unlike the other damage focused gamin to increase there own defence or heal unless they can some how gain poison, which there isn't an easy way to do outside of them pairing up and focusing near another poison gamin and then gaining poison from their own demise abilities. 

 

therefor the only use for them as such seems to be being blown up by sandeep as part of the Aetheric Detonation action, which can do decent amounts of AOE damage as well as a little bit of poison. however outside of this, with no real poison support or a Poison Golem (yet) I've yet to put one of these on the table realy 

 

Wind gamin

Wind gamin are the last of the minion level gamin and unlike the other Gamin arn't damage dealers. instead these can provide usefull movement shenanigans if paired up with banasuva or can even push other models around the board with wind blasts.

alternatively with their leap they can cover around 19 inches in a single turn ignoring terrain which can make them incredibly good scheam runners both as hires and as summons after the turn they come in. 

 

Essence of Power

The essence of power is a cheap enforcer level elemental that provides great support to the rest of the crew thanks to its Empower ability and Amplify action. the issue that it brings is that  promotes clumping up around it to get max benefit from the amplify action, as well as requiring to be activated prior to other models in order to get its amplify off to maximum benefit. 

 

As a crew that needs to be fairly clumped up to work off the various mantra's, the essence takes this to the next level, requiring the crew to almost be on top of each other to get the benefits of the little guy. added to the the number of 50mm bases that the crew can bring, this amount of clumping leads to issues with LOS as well as increased vulnerabilities to blasts and shock waves. 

 

I'd advice ignoring this guy unless your bringing a strong ranged component to the crew, it works quite well with say raspy and a silent one as these are fairly static long ranged models, but as the majority of the golems want to be in close combat and activating early in order to put out hazardous terrain I'm not his role in a sandeep crew is worth it with the restrictions it brings to the crew. 

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The Captain

The captain is a versatile support model, with decent anti shooting tech between its wind barrier, and middle of the storm.  He also has decent damage output with its relic hammer and can be disruptive with cyclone which having some a decent defensive trigger.  He is quite vulnerable outside of this, and doesn't help the crew ignore damage reduction and so other than the wind barriers its not realy bringing its full potential, esepcialy as its doesn't get to benefit from unionised. 

while the captain is a realy good model, i'm not sure its better than say brining a rail golem in its place?

 

Envy

a decent ranged damage dealer with some interesting disruption Envy can be quite nice in a ranged crew focused around the essence of power.  in addition handing out focus is never a bad thing, especially based upon the fact that with kandara in the crew there is a decent supply of card draw. in addition considering the crew wants to be taking the concentrate action fairly regularly anyway i'm not sure this is the crew for it, save for maybe counter picking Tara maybe, I guess I just don;t know about other crews enough to know which crews pass out focus shielding and fast.

Mechanical Rider

The mechanical rider is an interesting support model bringing scheam scrap and corpse marker (not quite sure why corpses, i mean i guess raspy and co uses them) generation as well as some extra card draw and extra manoeuvrability.  however this is bringing a lot of the same to the table as the rest of the crew. in addition the riders are no where near as survivable as they use to be (probably for the better i guess) and while its AOE suit giving out is nice especially as a lot of the models benefit from tomes its a lot of points and clumping up to get this to go off.  while its possibly the most valid of the versatile models for a sandeep crew, it also just has a lot of un -needed redundancy  

Arcane Emissary

Now the Arcane emissary i like a lot, its a tanky disruptive fast moving model with a great attack, a way of removing scheam markers and a realy nice 0........ the issue is the crew already have 3 tanky golems with great attacks which are supported by the rest of the crew. as good as the emissary is, especialy with Diesel Engine, im not sure what it brings is enough compared to bringing a golem which can do the same job for less. its a realy good model in crews that might not have access to this number of versatile tanky beaters, say Colette or even raspy if its not a snowstorm friendly match up. but i'm not sure what it brings to sandeep that a golem doesn't

Arcane Effigy  

now this is a model i like and i'm sure in condition heavy match ups it pulls its weight as well as taking some of the pressure off the oxford mages. i'm sure in the right match ups the guy is an auto include, but i think its going to be a lot more selective what match ups they are, rather than just sticking it in every list, especialy when the mage can do the same Job.

 

Versatile minions

 

I'm going to wuss out here and leave the versatile minions to someone else. as I don't realy have any experance with of them. I've heard good things about the Steam Arachnid Swarm and Soul stone Miner and the saboteurs look like they could be usefull in scheam marker heavy pools but i'm sure there are others who have more experience with them. 

if someone wants to give a break down for them i'm happy to include them in this post, but i'm not sure im in the right position to cover all the things they each bring to the table

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Out of faction

With a range of keywords spread across the Gamin and Golems, December, Foundry and wild fire key word models all have synergies with the crew especially if they drop ice pillars, scrap markers or Pyre markers for the various Gamin and Golems to use. in addition Ramos could also use all the scrap that the metal gamins/golems and bansuva create to create even more summons to play with as well as a bit of healing for the metal gamins/golems 

 

I'm sure the in depth tactics for these models will be covered in their own key words related tactics and so I'm not going to go in to huge details here, but i can see the benefit of bringing a 2nd master or a out of faction hire if it supports one of the golems. however its probibly not worth bringing a lot of these to the table as sandeep has a fairly Versatile crew already and considering the power of the mantra's especially Kandara's each out of faction hire you bring is one less mantra or gamin your bringing to trigger said Mantra.

 

Strats and scheams 

Being a Versatile crew sandeep can adapt his crews to a number of different strategies and schemes without too much bending the crew from its original goal, while being able to support the above mentioned out of faction models in order to help score these. 

For Turf War Having a crew full of fairly tanky models means your unlikely to lose a lot of markers unless you summon a gamin and have it die off before it can become a golem. the foundry part of the crew can provide a lot of mobility between the markers, and bringing Meifeng to leap from marker to marker killing things can also help a lot if you can supply her with the scrap. the wind gaming are also mobile enough to get between the markers fairly quickly if there is a marker left unguarded.

Plant Explosives is also quite a good scheam for Sandeep, as a lot of the academics can provide usefulness in terms of there mantra's being up the field so while the golems are off killing things and tying up enemy models, the various academics can place their explosives in safe places without being unable to assist the crew. in addition wind gamin are good at getting to places that the enemy isn't while also allowing models to be escape combat without being tied up

Idols can be a little difficult as the crew isn't the best at spreading out in order to cover all the deployment points. however due to the card draw this crew can generate with kandara, you can have some say over where the idols go by throwing high cards in to the initiative flips. 

 

Surprisingly for a summoner, Sandeep is fairly good at reckoning as well with a bit of selection over summons. yes you don't want to be summoning all the time, but his command the element action and Arcane Storm are still decent actions over summoning.  also with a the support for other masters, bringing raspy or Meifeng can increase the killing power of the crew quite substantially. in addition the academics save for the mage and golems are all fairly tanky and the crew can bring a fair amount of healing.

 

as for schemes there are quite a few that stand out to suit sandeep. Break through, search the ruins power ritual and Deliver a message are all schemes that a wind gamin or 2 can acheave while a metal gamin focused crew can drop a bucket load of scrap in a relatively confined area, for dig there graves without losing to much AP value. Vendetta can also be fairly acheaveable due to the way replacements work. chose a gamin to do the vendettaing and when it becomes a golem, its still a legal target. so you can always make a metal gamin the hunter, then make it in to a golem to go chasing after some 6 stone model out of no where say. 

 

Sandeep himself being a back field master is fairly hard to get to for things like deliver a message and assassinate so can create a lot of hassle opponents if they are in the pool 

 

All in All sandeep is an incredibly versatile master who is able to mold his crew to both the enemies leader choice and the strats and scheams. his crew are fairly diverse as well with its only realy weaknesses being marker removal and irreducible damage. if your worried about Exorcism triggers, bring the golems in the crew normally rather than combining them.  if your opponents bringing fire then the wildfire along with bansuva's and kandara's immunises to fire can hurt them. if they bring scrap markers then the foundry aspects of the crew and punish them for riding the rails off them and then eating them with attacks.

this versatility along with the card draw that kandara brings means that the crew is one of the most adaptable crews arcanists have to offer, and while it might not have a raw power of the other arcanist crews,   the fact its not tied in to a certain play style is what in my opinion makes it one of the best crews in the arcanist faction

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Thanks for getting this together!  I'd be surprised if we don't get a summoning cheat sheet eventually but in the meantime here are Sandeep's summoning options and the cards you need (assuming no surprise changes between now and launch):

Elemental Minions

  • 4 cost: Fire Gamin, Ice Gamin
  • 5 cost: Metal Gamin, Poison Gamin
  • 6 cost: Wind Gamin

Summons per card (base requirement 3:ToS-Tome: + each summon's cost)

  • 7:ToS-Tome: : 4
  • 8:ToS-Tome: : 5
  • 9:ToS-Tome: : 6
  • 10:ToS-Tome:
  • 11:ToS-Tome: : [4+4]
  • 12:ToS-Tome: : [4+5]
  • 13:ToS-Tome: : [5+5] or [4+6]
  • Red Joker : [5+6]

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Quick question regarding the interaction of the Oxfordian Mages condition removal aura and the Slow added to models by the attached upgrade.  

Above it was said, " The other thing to be aware of with the Oxfordian mage is the non interaction between with our powers combined and Arcane Conduit (the AOE condition removal). as replacing reattaches the golems upgrade giving it slow, and then the golem carries on the same activation, rather than starting a new one. this means that the golems can't remove the slow they get from the condition, even if they are stood next to the mage. "

Does it actually have to work that way?

The Aura states:  Until the End Phase, after a friendly model Activates within range, that model may end a Condition affecting it. If it does so and the friendly model has an Attached Summon Upgrade, this model and the friendly model both suffer 1 irreducible damage.

The Upgrade states: With Our Powers Combined: At the start of this model's Activation, if it is within a4 of at least two other models with the same name, it may Replace itself and two such models in range with an Elemental Enforcer model with the same Demise Ability as all three Replaced models.

Since both events happen at the start of activation and the timing for queued affects to happen is decided by the Models controller, couldn't you decide to have the golem creation happen first?  What am I missing that's preventing you from resolving the affects in that order?

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So the golem creation happens and the upgrade reattached giving it slow.

 

The golem then carries on the rest of the gamins activation so doesn't have a start of activation. At least that's my reading of it.

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1 hour ago, DumbLuck said:

Quick question regarding the interaction of the Oxfordian Mages condition removal aura and the Slow added to models by the attached upgrade.  

Above it was said, " The other thing to be aware of with the Oxfordian mage is the non interaction between with our powers combined and Arcane Conduit (the AOE condition removal). as replacing reattaches the golems upgrade giving it slow, and then the golem carries on the same activation, rather than starting a new one. this means that the golems can't remove the slow they get from the condition, even if they are stood next to the mage. "

Does it actually have to work that way?

The Aura states:  Until the End Phase, after a friendly model Activates within range, that model may end a Condition affecting it. If it does so and the friendly model has an Attached Summon Upgrade, this model and the friendly model both suffer 1 irreducible damage.

The Upgrade states: With Our Powers Combined: At the start of this model's Activation, if it is within a4 of at least two other models with the same name, it may Replace itself and two such models in range with an Elemental Enforcer model with the same Demise Ability as all three Replaced models.

Since both events happen at the start of activation and the timing for queued affects to happen is decided by the Models controller, couldn't you decide to have the golem creation happen first?  What am I missing that's preventing you from resolving the affects in that order?

The gamin is the model that activates, not the golem. So the Gamin activates, it can turns into a golem, the upgrade attaches and it gains slow, then you go to resolve the aura, but there's no model that has activated.

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44 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

The gamin is the model that activates, not the golem. So the Gamin activates, it can turns into a golem, the upgrade attaches and it gains slow, then you go to resolve the aura, but there's no model that has activated.

The Gamin and the Golem are the same model for all intents and purposes.  I'm on @DumbLuck's side on this, both effects take place in the same step so you can choose the order to resolve it in, nothing says that you must end the "start of activation" step after replacing.

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5 hours ago, retnab said:

The Gamin and the Golem are the same model for all intents and purposes.  I'm on @DumbLuck's side on this, both effects take place in the same step so you can choose the order to resolve it in, nothing says that you must end the "start of activation" step after replacing.

do you have a quote to back up this..... i cant see anything that states the gamin and the golem are the same model in the rules

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19 minutes ago, dannydb said:

do you have a quote to back up this..... i cant see anything that states the gamin and the golem are the same model in the rules

Point 4 of the rules for replace state that the model is considered the same model as the one replaced for all the game effects which targeted the original one, for example lasting game effects, I would suppose queued up effects waiting to resolve would apply to the replacement model. In point 7 of the replace effects the model is also stated to continue the started activation so you should be fine carrying on resolving effects from the start of the activation step.

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17 hours ago, retnab said:

The Gamin and the Golem are the same model for all intents and purposes.  I'm on @DumbLuck's side on this, both effects take place in the same step so you can choose the order to resolve it in, nothing says that you must end the "start of activation" step after replacing.

Are they the same step?

Looking at the timing box on page 35, Activating a model occurs in step B (And the mage refers to activating a model not at the start of a models activation), where as start activation is step C1.

I'm not sure if there other times when this timing crops up.

 

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The mages ability just states after a model activates, it doesn't say at which step during the activation that the effect occurs.   So technically any time during the activation,, i.e. Start phase, action phase, end activation phase, all those phases are after a  model activates. 😛

 

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Does banasuva's bonus action allow him to target himself? It is a tactical action and doesn't use "Other friendly elemental only".  Additionally, can that action be to concentrate?

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1 hour ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Does banasuva's bonus action allow him to target himself? It is a tactical action and doesn't use "Other friendly elemental only".  Additionally, can that action be to concentrate?

Yes, as far as I can see Banausva can target himself to take an action.

I can't see why it couldn't be concentrate. It would still be limited to the once per activation.

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yes you can target yourself and can make your self focus, its often better to do this rather than discarding to make yourself focus if within 6 of sandeep if you have a 6 in hand

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Here’s a question; do different Mantras stack?  If a Gamin is standing next to two Oxfordians, he only heals once when he concentrates. But if he’s next to Kandara and an Oxfordian, does he have to pick a Mantra to use?  

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3 minutes ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Here’s a question; do different Mantras stack?  If a Gamin is standing next to two Oxfordians, he only heals once when he concentrates. But if he’s next to Kandara and an Oxfordian, does he have to pick a Mantra to use?  

So this all comes down to the question of do the mantras have different name? 

 

I've been under the impression they do as I see the bold part of the name of the aura so the brackets bit mean the auras have different names so do stack

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2 hours ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Here’s a question; do different Mantras stack?  If a Gamin is standing next to two Oxfordians, he only heals once when he concentrates. But if he’s next to Kandara and an Oxfordian, does he have to pick a Mantra to use?  

Different Mantras do stack, as far as the rules are concerned Mantra (X) and Mantra (Y) are different effects, because the part in parentheses is still part of the ability name.

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Played Sandeep vs Dreamer today. Inconclusive result on Corrupted Idols: Had to end after turn 3, 1-1 on the Strat, I had the first point of Dig Graves with the second fully set up, he was very likely going to kill Sandeep and get his Assassinate points but we had to stop before we could flip it out.

Lessons learned:

Ice Golem isn't great into the matchup because Dreamer's crew has a good amout of armor ignoring with the Twist Reality attack. Fire Golem would have been the better choice.

Lord Chompy with the upgrade to give Butterfly Jump needs to be kept far away from your Academics. Swarm him with Elementals so that Sandeep can shoot at him while ignoring Friendly Fire.

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Yes I do think the golems are quite match up dependent. The ice and metal golem are easily taken down to anti armour. However the fire golem can be easily taken down by condition removal 

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On 7/14/2019 at 6:50 PM, CD1248 said:

Lord Chompy with the upgrade to give Butterfly Jump needs to be kept far away from your Academics. Swarm him with Elementals so that Sandeep can shoot at him while ignoring Friendly Fire.

Butterfly Jump as a whole seems like a poorly balanced upgrade.

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