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Black_Shuck

Youko Hamasaki Crew

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4 hours ago, Black_Shuck said:

Looks pretty decent. 

My only issue (and it's a small one) is that it doesn't really look like it'd be a fun intro box.

One of the things about Mali that I love, is for the most part, "You buy a box, I buy a box, we play" works on a basic level. Not always, but most of the time. But having 4 of 6 models unable to damage opponents, and only Bill competent at it, is gonna make that ehh.

I get WHY they did it. Didn't really have a good option. Putting Kunoichi in would peeve people who already have Oiran. Could have gone with Kabuki Warriors, but that'd make for a small box (Mas/Tot/Hench/2xMinions).

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23 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

My only issue (and it's a small one) is that it doesn't really look like it'd be a fun intro box.

One of the things about Mali that I love, is for the most part, "You buy a box, I buy a box, we play" works on a basic level. Not always, but most of the time. But having 4 of 6 models unable to damage opponents, and only Bill competent at it, is gonna make that ehh.

I get WHY they did it. Didn't really have a good option. Putting Kunoichi in would peeve people who already have Oiran. Could have gone with Kabuki Warriors, but that'd make for a small box 

 I've already got Hinamatsu, Bunraku, Qiran, and Charm Warders to prep my options(plus I like collecting the keyword).

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2 hours ago, Black_Shuck said:

 I've already got Hinamatsu, Bunraku, Qiran, and Charm Warders to prep my options(plus I like collecting the keyword).

Oh, as do I. Works perfectly fine for me too, as I've got everything for them too.

My quibble is that someone getting into the game isn't really served by buying Qi and Gong, for that "Two friends buy starter boxes, to get started" type experience. Granted, there's always been crews that weren't particularly great, but I'd hate to have to tell someone who got in with Qi, "Oh, you're gonna need to spend at least another $20+ to have any fun whatsoever.".

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3 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

Oh, as do I. Works perfectly fine for me too, as I've got everything for them too.

My quibble is that someone getting into the game isn't really served by buying Qi and Gong, for that "Two friends buy starter boxes, to get started" type experience. Granted, there's always been crews that weren't particularly great, but I'd hate to have to tell someone who got in with Qi, "Oh, you're gonna need to spend at least another $20+ to have any fun 

Yeah you see that definitely I've noticed. I got such mixed info when I started on which box to go with to learn from.  

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7 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

One of the things about Mali that I love, is for the most part, "You buy a box, I buy a box, we play" works on a basic level. Not always, but most of the time. But having 4 of 6 models unable to damage opponents, and only Bill competent at it, is gonna make that ehh.

I think some of the previous designers would have been willing to fight you over this.  What do you call a model that's Slow, Distracted, and that's been lured out of position?

The Qi and Gong crew box won't fit the standard demo script of "Here are your two minions.  This is how they attack each other."  That crew versus Rasputina or something goes straight to "Malifaux is a character based skirmish game where scoring points is determined by schemes and strategies.  And this crew is focused almost entirely on scheming and pulling the enemy models out of position to score."

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5 hours ago, solkan said:

I think some of the previous designers would have been willing to fight you over this.  What do you call a model that's Slow, Distracted, and that's been lured out of position?

The Qi and Gong crew box won't fit the standard demo script of "Here are your two minions.  This is how they attack each other."  That crew versus Rasputina or something goes straight to "Malifaux is a character based skirmish game where scoring points is determined by schemes and strategies.  And this crew is focused almost entirely on scheming and pulling the enemy models out of position to score."

I'm not saying the crew is bad. It might win games, but it's unlikely to do so without a deeper understanding of things that go beyond any intro-level games.

And the way it'd win, at least at that intro-level, would likely be a boring game for both players wanting to get into it.

Again, at a higher level of play, I don't mind this type of game, but it's definitely a box I'd be wanting to direct a new player away from. 

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32 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

I'm not saying the crew is bad. It might win games, but it's unlikely to do so without a deeper understanding of things that go beyond any intro-level games.

And the way it'd win, at least at that intro-level, would likely be a boring game for both players wanting to get into it.

The part I disagree with here is that I think telling a player that they can buy a crew box and "try out" the game in a meaningful manner is at best misguided and at worst gives players the wrong idea about how models are packaged and what they need to buy to get started.  If someone told me that they were going to buy two crew boxes and try out the game, I would honestly tell them not to, because they don't have enough models to play the game.

If boxes were packaged to provide enough models to start that way, summoner crew boxes would have more models in them.  :) 

The starting formula for anyone's starting crew purchase should be crew box plus other complimentary boxes.

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I think the only way you could start the game as such is running henchmen hardcore out of a box rather than trying to do a 30 stone game say. As said summoners and scheam focused gangd would work at all. The crew boxes are generally a way in to the gang not the gang on there own

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1 hour ago, dannydb said:

I think the only way you could start the game as such is running henchmen hardcore out of a box rather than trying to do a 30 stone game say. As said summoners and scheam focused gangd would work at all. The crew boxes are generally a way in to the gang not the gang on there own

Why it's a good idea to get as much info about all the crews as possible. Different players can like different styles(though the combat focused style is more popular, I like more control/scheme style)

There's a crew for every player and expanding that crew is usually simple with a couple models(and omg is it cheaper then say warhammer). The question is do you just want to play for fun or competitively? As that will change your choices significantly as well. I'm currently in love with the game cause there's so much agency the game gives you.

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It just hit me!  Bill Algren... Nathan Algren... the movie The Last Samurai!

I'm so freaking slow!

Cool looking model, but I think he's gonna be my new Ototo.... unused.  Especially when Hinamatsu is so much better right now. 

I'm gonna have to paint so much white pancake make-up on people!

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5 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

It just hit me!  Bill Algren... Nathan Algren... the movie The Last Samurai!

I'm so freaking slow!

Cool looking model, but I think he's gonna be my new Ototo.... unused.  Especially when Hinamatsu is so much better right now. 

I'm gonna have to paint so much white pancake make-up on people!

I feel Hinamatsu is this crews Nekima.

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Hello,

 

I am a long time Arcanist (since M1E) and Guild (not so long) player. I favor non-killy playstyles (with some exceptions like Perdita and Rasputina) and as such Colette is by far my main master.

I am interested in Youko Crew but don't really like Himamatsu and Bunrakus. I already own Oiran (Kunochoi now) and would buy Charm Warders and Kabuki Warriors. I have Mei Feng Crew but it don't really synergize with Qi and Gong.

I also own a Vintage Misaki. I would like to know if you think that she is a good choice as a secondary master in a Youko Crew.

Concerning Hinamatsu: do you think that she is near mandatory for Qi and Gong or is it possible to play good Crews without her (and without the Bunrakus)? Are there other out of keyword or versatile models that work great with Qi and Gong?

 

Thanks in advance for your answers.

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I haven't played more than once with the Youko's team but from what you ask @Vangerdahast I would say that Misaki is the best faction's secondary master: her Oyabun's Command is great to take down a tough opponent.

About Hinamatsu...since she has a great synergy with the Qi & Gong team I think it's a good addition to the Team Box: Good movement, she can ignore armor and include Lure to the pack ... and Distraction

Before using Bunrakus I would prefer include Tanukis that are less expensive and more useful

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Misaki is a great beater master, so she is very good as a second master for more scheme-oriented Youko.

As per Hinamatsu - I don't know if she is necessary in the crew, as I don't know the crew itself that much:D, but there are some nice beaters in the faction, and some of them are Versatile. Maybe this thread will be of use to you: 

 

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It's a bit late, but I think these boxes would be so much better if they included more breadth and less depth. I would prefer to see one Geisha in the box rather than three and have it include a Kabuki Warrior and a Kunoichi. The support box might have one or two more of each of those models to expand your crew. It probably wouldn't be the best business decision for Wyrd, but it would benefit me! It's pretty common for me to paint up one or two minion models for a crew and leave the other one or two on the sprue. 

Although who am I really kidding. I'd wind up buying both boxes anyway, but probably just for the one additional Kabuki. 

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For what it's worth, it feel in 3e I'm buying more multiples of a model than I used to in 2e. Who knows how I'll be building lists in three months, but that's how it's been playing out with me so far. In fact I've been grabbing models from an ex TT player I sold some of my spares three or so years ago:D

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This is the new box i've preordered, but i'm an existing player who has a fair bit of Ten Thunders already. It seems like this is one of the boxes more for existing players than beginners but personally i've just spent a few weeks exhausting Sekiro and thats given me a bunch of painting ideas and this box looks perfect for that 😛

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Yeah, I'm still trying to settle on painting scheme and basing for this crew.  I'm thinking woodgrain bases with miniature tea cups and plates of snacks on the bases, like little wooden serving trays you'd have in a tea house, but I can't think of a good paint scheme that I could pull off. 

Half the fun is researching kabuki theater and traditional tea houses, though!

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