tactics Lucius listbuilding

[Cronex13]

So. Lucius. At first glance, he requires minions a plenty to command and elite models from his new box set whenever it comes out. However, I'm thinking he might be able to fit a couple of scary enforcers into his list. The only minions I think he needs is a couple lawyers.

Lucius's "Issue Command" ability only affects minions, elites or mimics, giving it a failry specific set of models it can affect. However, the best target for this action are his lawyers. Whenever his lawyers preform an action outside of their activation, they draw a card (remember that you already have a 6 card hand) so that's some very good hand building and rotation.

In addition, the lawyers have the "Obey" action, which is like Issue Command but with a lower stat. However, it can target any Non master. This means that suddenly if you have an executioner that needs to shred things, you're going to be able to use Lucius's turn to do so, AND get some card rotation to help. Can be used to give extra mobility to the Brutal Emmisary so he can get up and box something for the rest of it's life as well.

These are just beginner thoughts though, I haven't played since the closed beta ended and only have about half of the guild range of models. Please feel free to expand and add to this tactica!

[Cronex13]

You can further this chain by using the "Obey" ability to send the Scribe up towards the enemy if you have wounded models near. The Scribe will draw a card because it's not his activation and then he has a card in hand to discard when he inevitably gets targeted. He then buries.

His next activation (maybe even that same turn if he hasn't gone yet) he unburies next to Lucius and hands out heals and focus to everybody within 2"

[4thstringer]

I'm going to have to disagree.  While in the right situation obeying a lawyer is good, often you will get more out of obeying agent 46, Alan Reid, or the doppelganger.   

 

[isilmeon]

Lawyers are very situational - a high TN of Obey strongly hits for their effectiveness. As a result of my tests, I came to the conclusion that it is worth taking 1, not more. Investigators looks much better - due to the staggering, can inflict decent damage, give models control by pushing them from markers and draw cards. My last idea was to take the Domador De Cadaveres, Brutal Emissary and Pale Rider - the Cadaveres are minions, so through them Lucius can give orders to the Rider and the emissary who are undead.

[trikk]

10 hours ago, isilmeon said:

Lawyers are very situational - a high TN of Obey strongly hits for their effectiveness. As a result of my tests, I came to the conclusion that it is worth taking 1, not more. Investigators looks much better - due to the staggering, can inflict decent damage, give models control by pushing them from markers and draw cards. My last idea was to take the Domador De Cadaveres, Brutal Emissary and Pale Rider - the Cadaveres are minions, so through them Lucius can give orders to the Rider and the emissary who are undead.

Investigators don't really seem that good to me. 0" engagement and Df5 hurt them IMHO. I do agree about the lawyers.

I usually have 2 changelings, Doppel and Agent and the rest is situational.

[4thstringer]

45 minutes ago, trikk said:

Investigators don't really seem that good to me. 0" engagement and Df5 hurt them IMHO. I do agree about the lawyers.

I usually have 2 changelings, Doppel and Agent and the rest is situational.

Investigators pair so well with false witness I like to use them together.   

I have also had some luck going heavy into the staggered.  Reid, Investigators and grimwell.  Once you start getting that staggered on, they really pile on the damage well.   But doppel, agent, rifleman gunline is so sweet, its hard to compare them.  On schemes that you have to get forward, I think Iike stagger team more.

I've wanted to explore Investigators against Mei, because they drop so many scrap markers you would have tons of push shenanigans.  

[Corn]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:23 PM, isilmeon said:

Lawyers are very situational - a high TN of Obey strongly hits for their effectiveness. As a result of my tests, I came to the conclusion that it is worth taking 1, not more. Investigators looks much better - due to the staggering, can inflict decent damage, give models control by pushing them from markers and draw cards. My last idea was to take the Domador De Cadaveres, Brutal Emissary and Pale Rider - the Cadaveres are minions, so through them Lucius can give orders to the Rider and the emissary who are undead.

I agree that the Pale Rider seems like a really interesting buy for a Lucius crew.   He is a pretty solid beater, he has a high cost and can potentially trigger a lot of out of activation Charges  with Hatred Unleashed, which could pair pretty well with Following Orders.   That said, aside from Agent 46 and possibly Reid / Dopple... I'm not sure how many Elite models actually want to be in the thick of it.  Pale Rider also has a pretty good gun for mimic users to borrow.  The Domador also is a really interesting pick.  Decay is pretty solid against hordes, can be mimic'd, and it can add a pretty decent healing for Lucius' other living members.

I agree with @4thstringer that the Clockwork Rifle is a pretty good mimic target for the Dopple and Agent 46, as the Clockwork Rifle intrinsically ignores cover and Lucius' crew also has a lot of discard effects... so another Execute trigger can be scary.   The other guns I would consider would be a Chain Harpoon (Hunter) for control, or some blasts on the cheap (Sanctioned Spellcaster).  

On 4/29/2019 at 9:28 AM, 4thstringer said:

I have also had some luck going heavy into the staggered.  Reid, Investigators and Grimwell.  Once you start getting that staggered on, they really pile on the damage well.   But doppel, agent, rifleman gunline is so sweet, its hard to compare them.  On schemes that you have to get forward, I think Iike stagger team more.

When going for the staggered build, do you sprinkle in things like Field Reporters (auto distracted and stagger on the camera)?  Seems like it would really jive with that team for spreading Stagger a bit.  Seems like a pretty fun build actually.  

[4thstringer]

Just now, Corn said:

I actually think the Pale Rider seems like a really interesting buy for a Lucius crew.   He is a pretty solid beater, he has a high cost and can potentially trigger a lot of out of activation Charges  with Hatred Unleashed, which could pair pretty well with Following Orders.   That said, aside from Agent 46 and possibly Reid... I'm not sure how many Elite models actually want to be in the thick of it.  Pale Rider also has a pretty good gun for mimic users to borrow.  The Domador also is a really interesting pick.  Decay is pretty solid against hordes, can be mimiced, and it can add a pretty decent healing for Lucius' other living members.

I agree with @4thstringer that the Clockwork Rifle is a pretty good mimic target for the Dopple and Agent 46, as the Clockwork Rifle intrinsically ignores cover and Lucius' crew also has a lot of discard effects... so another Execute trigger can be scary.   The other guns I would consider would be a Chain Harpoon (Hunter) for control, or some blasts on the cheap (Sanctioned Spellcaster).  

When going for the staggered build, do you sprinkle in things like Field Reporters (auto distracted and stagger on the camera)?  Seems like it would really jive with that team for spreading Stagger a bit.  Seems like a pretty fun build actually.  

I did, but ended up using them more for scheme runners.  

One thing I noticed is it is easy to save your mid-high crows for McMourning with all of lucius's card draw.

[isilmeon]

By the way, how do you use changelings? Honestly, I couldn’t use them properly in any game.

[4thstringer]

33 minutes ago, isilmeon said:

By the way, how do you use changelings? Honestly, I couldn’t use them properly in any game.

They can copy lucius's obey.

[isilmeon]

15 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

They can copy lucius's obey.

It's just 1 action per model with lower stat and 4 SS cost...doubtful. And in Neverborns they look better than in the Guild, since there are practically no other tactical actions for copying in our faction.

[Adran]

24 minutes ago, isilmeon said:

It's just 1 action per model with lower stat and 4 SS cost...doubtful. And in Neverborns they look better than in the Guild, since there are practically no other tactical actions for copying in our faction.

I think some of the rules recently changed to reduce the following orders abuses, but there was a time when they were being used to each draw 2-3 cards a turn. It also allows you to get around the once per activation limit of Issue command.

So 1 way to use 2 changelings, and Agent 46 would be for Lucius to issue command on Agent 46 needing a 5. Draw a card and get an action.

Lucius then Issues command on changling 1, needing a 5, and draws a card. The Changling can then issue command on agent 46, needing a 7

Repeat with Changling 2.

for 3*5s and 2*7s, (so hopefully mainly flipped, but even cheated its not too high) you got 3 cards and 3 attacks from Agent 46.

Add in a laywer, and it gets to do similar amount of card draw as it obeys the changlings to issue command on Lucius and agent 46 (needing 2*9s and 2*7s and a 5 to draw 3 cards).

And each changeling activation can then be used to just like you the Laywer to obey the other changling to issue commands to Lucius to make agent 46 attack. ( a 9, 2*7s and a 5 for 3 cards).

 

Even ignoring all that, they can turn a 7 into another Lucius AP. Which can become almost any action you want. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Corn]

I think the Guardian is a good buy for Lucius' crew.  He is a minion, so eligible for Lucius' Issue Command, the Great Sword is exceptional with out of activation movement- which Lucius has in spades and its a great pick for mimic.   Not to mention Toss, which has a ton of utility for moving your crew and your opponents crew around, and Take the Hit if you need to intervene to save an important model

[Cronex13]

Hello all! Its been a few months since the start of this thread and I never realized anyone responded. I've learned a bit since then, such as the resources necessary for this level of chainwork... Pretty tough. I haven't tried Alan Reid or Agent, nor the new investigators. Given that were waiting for their box set at this point anyways, I'm sad I didn't use them when I had the chance. Will prolly just fill with beta rules in friendly games til the release. Someone give me the quick rundown on how both Alan and Agent work?

 

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

I have never seen the point in obeying a model to obey a model for cards... it's over baking it in my book. With the right resource management Lucia's just dose not run out of cards. 

My favourite list for Lucia's so far is:

Lucias

Scribe

Agent 46

Alan Reid

Dr.Grimwell

Investigator

False witness 

Guild lawyer

It's not a crew for all games but it is a great base to a lot of games dose very well in reckoning. Takes a game or 2 to figure out how to beat use it but I love it! 

[4thstringer]

56 minutes ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

I have never seen the point in obeying a model to obey a model for cards... it's over baking it in my book. With the right resource management Lucia's just dose not run out of cards. 

My favourite list for Lucia's so far is:

Lucias

Scribe

Agent 46

Alan Reid

Dr.Grimwell

Investigator

False witness 

Guild lawyer

It's not a crew for all games but it is a great base to a lot of games dose very well in reckoning. Takes a game or 2 to figure out how to beat use it but I love it! 

Would I be right in assuming that the investigator, false witness, alan reid, and grimwell are on one side of the board, and lucius, scribe, lawyer and 46 on the other?

 

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

20 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Would I be right in assuming that the investigator, false witness, alan reid, and grimwell are on one side of the board, and lucius, scribe, lawyer and 46 on the other?

 

Thinking about it I am sure you can run it like that but they do get the most use all working together. 

[Cronex13]

Decent logic, I definitely underestimated the cost of Obey. Also, is there a card for false witness? Can't seem to find him atm

 

[4thstringer]

Just now, Cronex13 said:

Decent logic, I definitely underestimated the cost of Obey. Also, is there a card for false witness? Can't seem to find him atm

 

gotta get it off the beta files, or wait until the guild book comes out.  Should be the same with Agent 46 and alan reid.

[Cronex13]

Kk cool. An Elite minion/Enforcer I presume?

 

[4thstringer]

Just now, Cronex13 said:

Kk cool. An Elite minion/Enforcer I presume?

 

elite/Journalist

[Cronex13]

So I just got my beta files out and read em whilst eating breakfast at work.

 

Oh my goodness.

The False Witness is very powerful and provides VERY good synergy for a Lucius crew. Handing out adversary and huge scheme marker management is amazing, especially when combined with the Investigators abilities. 

I see a lot of people talking about Grimwell in a Lucius crew, due to the fact that both Elite and Asylum do fun stuff with Staggered. How far do we take this? Considering that Heartsbane, Orderlys and even nurses could be brought in, what do we think about those synergies?

[4thstringer]

42 minutes ago, Cronex13 said:

So I just got my beta files out and read em whilst eating breakfast at work.

 

Oh my goodness.

The False Witness is very powerful and provides VERY good synergy for a Lucius crew. Handing out adversary and huge scheme marker management is amazing, especially when combined with the Investigators abilities. 

I see a lot of people talking about Grimwell in a Lucius crew, due to the fact that both Elite and Asylum do fun stuff with Staggered. How far do we take this? Considering that Heartsbane, Orderlys and even nurses could be brought in, what do we think about those synergies?

IMO the orderlies and heartsbane are not helpful at that point.  I'm not sure how you would get nurses in.  Did I miss something and nurses have the mimic keyword?

[Cronex13]

No, not at all. In order to bring Nurses in, you'd have to have Grimwell as your Leader, as he and the nurse both have the Asylum keyword. However, this would make Lucius not the Leader and all the other minions more expensive... An awfully high cost for what could potentially just be a gimmick

[4thstringer]

1 minute ago, Cronex13 said:

No, not at all. In order to bring Nurses in, you'd have to have Grimwell as your Leader, as he and the nurse both have the Asylum keyword. However, this would make Lucius not the Leader and all the other minions more expensive... An awfully high cost for what could potentially just be a gimmick

Were you sent on here to lure me in?  Those are the words that draw me into trying things.