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Gunfighter issues

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If I use a projectile attack as a close combat attack with Gunfighter, does it still count as a projectile attack for e.g. Bulletproof and Tara's defensive trigger?

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No as projectile attacks are a type of range. Gunfighter changes the range from :ranged12" to :ToS-Melee:1". So there is no :rangedicon so it doesn't work.

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Gunfighter: This model may treat any of its z Actions as having a range of y1".

So technically it's still a projectile action with a close combat range. M2E had attack types like Sh, if new mechanics contradict the established game logic, it should be pointed out.

If such change is intentional, please add "instead" into the description.

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As trikk says, the text of gunfighter itself says that the (gun) can be treated as (melee) 1".  It's not a both, but an or.  Its similar to M2e where an attack could have both a ranged and a melee option (ex: Lynch's hold out pistol, that was either a (gun) 8" or a (melee) 2").  It's just been moved off the action and into the abilities section.

For it to still be a projectile it would somehow have to be a (gun)(melee)1", which doesn't match with the logic that malifaux has been using.

I can see how the 'may' could be confusing, since a lot of other m3e cards use may as 'behavior 1 or behavior 1 and 2' (aka bravado where the 'may' means after concentrating you can also push, but don't have to).  This time it just means you can shoot or beat a guy with a gun.

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The "may" is not the problem, "treat" is. You're not replacing the rg with :melee1, you're just treating it like that's what it is. But the action's actual rg still includes the :ToS-Range: so it can still be affected by Bulletproof, etc. How it worked in M2 is irrelevant, all that matters is the wording in this version

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The problem I have is that if you follow through the argument that you don't lose the :ToS-Range:, then it ends up being a nearly pointless ability. :ToS-Melee:does not give you permission to use an action whilst engaged, its a case that :ToS-Range: actions can not be taken whilst engaged. . I am firmly of the opinion that the various icons for range are mutually exclusive, so if you are being treated as range :ToS-Melee:1", you are not using any of the :ToS-Range:12".

No one thinks that you can charge and use it at 12", every one is completely happy that the 1 has completely replaced the 12, but the fact its a symbol seems to make a difference.

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I actually like this reading. If we treat "as" to mean "add" instead of its actual meaning of "is", then the model with gunfighter has a Rg of 12:ToS-Range:1:ToS-Melee:. Which is fantastic, because you can't use :ToS-Range: attacks while engaged, so gunfighter only works against models with a 0:ToS-Melee: or no melee attack at all.

Dang, beat to the punch.

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The solution is to have it "replace" the rg instead of "treat" it like that. I guarantee rules lawyers will argue it's still a :ToS-Range: as-written

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1 minute ago, retnab said:

The solution is to have it "replace" the rg instead of "treat" it like that. I guarantee rules lawyers will argue it's still a :ToS-Range: as-written

Why?

This whole thread is essentially people refusing to treat the range on the action as :melee1".

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1 minute ago, retnab said:

The solution is to have it "replace" the rg instead of "treat" it like that. I guarantee rules lawyers will argue it's still a :ToS-Range: as-written

Unfortunately those lawyers will do similar things with replace. Is it permanent?  Once I replace its range, can I go back to the :ToS-Range:?

Adding "for the duration of the action" works for both treat and replace.

I don't think its current wording is wrong, or a problem, but I'm not the bulk of malifaux players and this thread shows that some people do.

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40 minutes ago, Adran said:

No one thinks that you can charge and use it at 12"

Actually, Run & Gun gives you this ability.

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15 minutes ago, Ming said:

Actually, Run & Gun gives you this ability.

OOO, but Perdita and Basse don't have that (amongst others), but do have gunfighter.  Let's go with that interpretation yes please.

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