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dashel advice?

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32 minutes ago, Legislat said:

I disagree. If you want dogs - just hire them. Wasting 2-3 upgrades on them (with slow on each one!) and them being mindless means they are worthless for 2 turns straight. Dont do it. Its a trap)

I hire them in the back of the table turn one to drop markers in the corners if I take Power Ritual or use them for Search the Ruins. It's a risk, but it can be worth it. 

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Ok.... let me get this straight:

I wish to summon a model of guard Cavalry for a cost of 8.

I start off by needing a 10 in RAMS; plus the (4) for targeting an enemy scheme marker ( 6 for friendly, but use the dispatcher to turn it. )

My rng. is 8 & Stat is 6

What is the total card value I need to reach to summon the cavalryman?

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Enemy marker/freindly

Executioner 13/nope

Mounted guard 12/ red joker

Sergant 11/13

Rifleman 10/12

Warden 9/11

Patrol 8/10

Hound 7/9

 

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11 minutes ago, Michael Curran said:

Ok.... let me get this straight:

I wish to summon a model of guard Cavalry for a cost of 8.

I start off by needing a 10 in RAMS; plus the (4) for targeting an enemy scheme marker ( 6 for friendly, but use the dispatcher to turn it. )

My rng. is 8 & Stat is 6

What is the total card value I need to reach to summon the cavalryman?

Targeting an friendly scheme marker only increases your TN to 12 not to 16. If you are targeting an enemy marker, its at 10. So, with you Stat of 6, you'd need to flip a 12 of rams. 

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14 minutes ago, eddy said:

Enemy marker/freindly

Executioner 13/nope

Mounted guard 12/ red joker

Sergant 11/13

Rifleman 10/12

Warden 9/11

Patrol 8/10

Hound 7/9

 

Just write this down or print this out on a small sheet of paper to help you in the future. The only edit I would make would be:

Additional hounds +3 and Additional Patrol +4.

So if you have a 13 in hand but really want a warden out, you could summon a warden on a 9 + a patrol (9+4) or a hound (9+3). Or  if you only have a 12 but want two models you can summon 2 patrols (8+4). Not sure how viable this is but options are always something to consider.

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21 hours ago, Michael Curran said:

What is the significance of the “patrolling guard” 0ss upgrade?

summoned model comes in as slow to be pushed 3” toward the summoner?  🤷🏼‍♂️

It's a limitation. If Dashel is your Leader, you can only have 5 of these Upgrades on the table. 2 if he's hired in. The wording isn't great, but the second para on page 32 means you can't summon a model if you can't attach the Upgrade. It prevents the problem that existed in M2E of flooding the table with models. Less a problem with the "Once per turn" limitation, but with a lot of the summoners being able to summon multiple models per activation, it was probably necessary.

Additionally, it makes these Summons a valid target for stuff like Exorcism or Torment. 

But, often with most of these Upgrades, you do get a bonus effect that lasts as long as the model is in play. In this case, a friendly only mini-Lure. 

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On 4/13/2019 at 7:03 PM, Michael Curran said:

So only ( 5 ) models total may ever be summoned?

 

Poor dogs will never be chosen.  Woof

Well, if they die, which they often do, they do not count against the limit since they aren't in play. I had them come in late game and help with Search the Ruins one game. 

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Interesting possibilities:

if a guard cavalry is removed as a casualty, replaced by a guard patrol, does the guard count for summoning purposes?  Since the model is counted as dead.  Barker is allowed five summons on the board at any one time, but a casualties effects should have mo bearing on the count, correct?

 

Also, if a DM Recruiter in Barker’s crew turns a rifleman killed in action to a death marshal does that death marshal count toward the max five summons allowed?

I think not as they are dead, and Barker should be free to summon again, but I want to inquire before I get embroiled in rules lawyering at some event.  Thanks in advance - MC

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16 minutes ago, Michael Curran said:

Interesting possibilities:

if a guard cavalry is removed as a casualty, replaced by a guard patrol, does the guard count for summoning purposes?  Since the model is counted as dead.  Barker is allowed five summons on the board at any one time, but a casualties effects should have mo bearing on the count, correct?

 

Also, if a DM Recruiter in Barker’s crew turns a rifleman killed in action to a death marshal does that death marshal count toward the max five summons allowed?

I think not as they are dead, and Barker should be free to summon again, but I want to inquire before I get embroiled in rules lawyering at some event.  Thanks in advance - MC

Don't have it on me, but you will need to look at the rules for replace.  Do upgrades carry over?  I don't think they do.

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Summon upgrades carry over, other upgrades do not:

3rd paragraph under Replace

If the original model had any Conditions or
Tokens, the new model gains those Conditions
at the same value (if any) and all Tokens. Any
Summon Upgrades Attached to the original
model are Attached to the new model; all other
Upgrades Attached to the original model are
removed from the game.

^^ This will apply to both scenarios of the mounted cavalry and DM recruiter as both say "Replace". 

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Yes.

You're only allows to have 5 of the summon upgrades on the table at the same time. When a model with a summon upgrade is replaced, the new model has the summon upgrade attached to them effectively keeping the upgrade still on the table and in play.

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I mean... it keeps it from being abused and keeps summoning in check which was a major problem in M2e. 

If you want to go the DM Recruiter option, just hire him +2 guild guard as his personal body guard. Those resummons won't count towards your summon count + whatever else you summon during the game. 

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If you are playing around with replace mechanics, its well worth understanding the replace rules. The Replace rules will transfer summoning upgrades, keeping them in play, and so still counting towards the plentiful limit on the upgrade (Which is what enforces the limit. You could summon 15 things across the game as long as you never have more than 5 upgrades out at any one time).

If you are using the death Marshal recruiter and replace a model without a summoning upgrade, it won't gain one, but if he recruits from a summoned model then the replaced model still has the summons upgrade.

I don't think Dashel was the model that was used to abuse the replace mechanics (I have a feeling it was probably Ramos), but it was seen that being able to use "replace" to get rid of the summon upgrades and so be able to keep expanding the crew was too good.

Thematically its still "the same" model when you use replace, so most ongoing effects will still apply to the replaced model. Its not quite the same model as far as the rules go, and there are a few corner cases where that might matter, but there ahs been a lot of work on the replace mechanics making them work as written and be as simple as we can make them whilst being complete.

 

Edit - I really strongly recommend walking a replace effect through following the rules, and see if it is clear, because there is possibly still time to change the text

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Absolutely, & I understand the condition.

If a recruiter turns a minion hired for the crew into a DM, it does not count towards the ‘rule of 5’.  But!  If a summoned guard minion dies and he replaces it with a DM - it does count.

So in essence - five summoned guard models are max table top to keep the integrity of the game.  Got it

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22 hours ago, Michael Curran said:

Interesting possibilities:

if a guard cavalry is removed as a casualty, replaced by a guard patrol, does the guard count for summoning purposes?  Since the model is counted as dead.  Barker is allowed five summons on the board at any one time, but a casualties effects should have mo bearing on the count, correct?

 

Also, if a DM Recruiter in Barker’s crew turns a rifleman killed in action to a death marshal does that death marshal count toward the max five summons allowed?

I think not as they are dead, and Barker should be free to summon again, but I want to inquire before I get embroiled in rules lawyering at some event.  Thanks in advance - MC

Keep in mind that the placed Guard Patrol does not count against the summon upgrade if the Mounted Guard was not summoned. 

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