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Shaken Tokens in Simple Duels


retnab

Question

Just bringing a question over from the discord.  It was asked whether a Shaken Token can be used in your opponent's Simple Duel, and if so when?  The relevant info is:

  • Shaken: During a duel's Modify step, the opponent may choose to remove a Shaken Token from this unit to give a Fireteam involved in the duel -2 AV during the current Action.
  • Step 2: Modify: At this point, players have the opportunity to use a Token (Inspired, Shaken, and Tactics) and/or Cheat Fate following the rules on page 7. Players cannot use more than one Token of each type in a duel. The player who initiated the duel is the first to choose whether they wish to Cheat Fate or use any Tokens, and they may do so in any order. Then, the player who did not initiate the duel (if another player is involved) may Cheat Fate and/or use any Tokens.

The green text seems to be the relevant part to this.  Either we say 1) that the opponent has the opportunity to spend the Shaken Token after the acting player has cheated and/or used Tokens (and then figure out who gets to use that token in a 3-4 player game), or 2) the "if another player is involved" part locks the opponent out of using Shaken Tokens on simple duels (which would be a pretty decent buff to the Cult in particular, such as Doomseekers using Open Portal).  What do we all think?

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32 minutes ago, solkan said:

Not enough Flaming Rhinos in the world for me to agree with the statement that that's a "buff" to Cult.  😛  Each force has enough simple duels that their forces rely on.

True, that was more regarding their units needing to put ST's on themselves for Glory.  This means that Doomseekers can summon care-free and Broken can ramble to their heart's content :P 

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1 hour ago, retnab said:

True, that was more regarding their units needing to put ST's on themselves for Glory.  This means that Doomseekers can summon care-free and Broken can ramble to their heart's content :P 

Yeah.  But I don't think Cult was balanced on "If you take an action, the other player will take away one of your Shaken tokens."  I can see it being balanced on "If you take an opposed action...", but I can't see the expectation that you avoid even simple duels.  Because, honestly, it's almost not a decision.  "I activate this unit, take focused effort for a Shaken token, and then do ____.  Shall I just take the Shaken token back off?"

But, honestly, the point about not having any idea who would make the choice to use Shaken Tokens during a 3+ player game feels very decisive.  If simple duels (or the Cult) was balanced on another player using Shaken tokens, there's no way they could leave that detail out of the 3+ player rules.  (It'd have to come up even in Titan Smash...)

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