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Jordon

Arcanist Counters

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I'm curious as to which masters we deem as the easiest to counter pick against. It seems like the masters who specialize the most will have the most difficult time. I'm not talking about specific matchups but in more general terms. I feel like until we get alternate master cards, it's likely that the least competitive masters will be those that can be most easily countered. 

Are there any masters who'd likely not pick against a declared faction? 

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The two obvious cases for me are Hoffman fearing anti armour and Colette fearing stun and the ten thunders upgrade.

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1 hour ago, Jordon said:

I'm curious as to which masters we deem as the easiest to counter pick against. It seems like the masters who specialize the most will have the most difficult time. I'm not talking about specific matchups but in more general terms. I feel like until we get alternate master cards, it's likely that the least competitive masters will be those that can be most easily countered. 

Are there any masters who'd likely not pick against a declared faction? 

Do we have any reason to believe that alternate master cards aren't going to be declared the same way regular masters are? As in you declare 'Arcanists' followed by 'Rasputina, Summer edition', or whatever it was.

 

Colette is also pretty wrecked by Tara and Levi. She is also pretty threatened by Hamelin due to all of the unresisted or indirect ways that blight will get put on you if you are anywhere near that crew, followed up with bleeding disease targeting Wp and doing extremely high burst damage. I don't think I'd ever declare her into Outcasts in a serious game.

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Raspy vs anything with mass flying/incorporeal?

 

once played a game of raspy vs nekima's flying circus and i gave up almost compleatly on ice pillar generation and just had to shoot them down as they flew in

 

the only reason i won was my opponent thought turn 4 was turn 3 and couldn't score the points he needed turn 5 to win. to the point he could have wiped me compleatly off the board turn 5 if he hadn't double focused 3 models (when this was allowed) and then relised the game was ending

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19 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Do we have any reason to believe that alternate master cards aren't going to be declared the same way regular masters are? As in you declare 'Arcanists' followed by 'Rasputina, Summer edition', or whatever it was.

The rulebook specifically says in "declare leader" that you don't declare what title of leader you're using.

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26 minutes ago, retnab said:

The rulebook specifically says in "declare leader" that you don't declare what title of leader you're using.

Huh, thanks! I must admit I haven't read that part of the book since the CB.

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I think Colette's definitely the Arcanist master who gets hard-countered the most. Everyone else has something where you want to bring tech to help minimize their trick (bringing Demolitionist or Blow It To Hell models vs Raspy and her ice pillars for instance), or eating scrap markers or ignoring armor or condition removal, but most of that is either minimizing the effectiveness of the crew or master, while the hard counter to Colette is specifically ignoring the defensive tech that keeps her alive.

She's currently never going to see play against Thunders since for 9ss any crew can take both Masked Agent upgrades for two 13-16" diameter bubbles of no resistance triggers on a mobile beater, and a Tanuki to hand out cheap Focus.

Agreed Outcasts also isn't a favorable one for her. Neither is Neverborn with their good amount of Stunned (and therefore Bayou with Zoradia, who also likes similar scheme pools, and Wong who does plenty of indirect damage).

 

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2 hours ago, retnab said:

The rulebook specifically says in "declare leader" that you don't declare what title of leader you're using.

Oh that actually confirm it is going to be in the game then!

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12 minutes ago, Gesuma said:

Oh that actually confirm it is going to be in the game then!

Not for certain, the manifest rules for avatars were in the M2e rulebook. But it does show it is the current intent. 

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1 hour ago, Boomstick said:

I think Colette's definitely the Arcanist master who gets hard-countered the most. Everyone else has something where you want to bring tech to help minimize their trick (bringing Demolitionist or Blow It To Hell models vs Raspy and her ice pillars for instance), or eating scrap markers or ignoring armor or condition removal, but most of that is either minimizing the effectiveness of the crew or master, while the hard counter to Colette is specifically ignoring the defensive tech that keeps her alive.

She's currently never going to see play against Thunders since for 9ss any crew can take both Masked Agent upgrades for two 13-16" diameter bubbles of no resistance triggers on a mobile beater, and a Tanuki to hand out cheap Focus.

Agreed Outcasts also isn't a favorable one for her. Neither is Neverborn with their good amount of Stunned (and therefore Bayou with Zoradia, who also likes similar scheme pools, and Wong who does plenty of indirect damage).

 

She can still declare Fade In if she get's hit by an attack that deals Stunned. It just means she has to wait it out or unbury further from the action.

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7 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Anna eats scrap too.

Transmortis likes scraps (and corpses). Anna, Albus, and Undergrads can all turn either into Schemes and Valedictorian can eat them for cards. :) 

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Worst:

Hoff:  Anti armour seems to be fairly common and an easy hire to counter Hoff. Seems like every faction has at least a bit so I think that makes him the easiest to counter because I feel like every faction can do it.

Raspy:  Flight and incorporeal ignore a big part of Raspy's schtick. However I don't think it's quite as commonplace as Hoff. The other issue with Raspy is spamming models which every faction can do. I feel like Raspy can pivot her play a little in order to adjust to such mechanics but it's still likely to be tough for Raspy competitively. 

 

Situational:

Kaeris:  It's nice that her Pyre's cannot be ignored because otherwise she'd be among the worst. The big issues with Kaeris seem to be condition removal which is fairly common. So while injured and burning seem to be a major factor for Kaeris, she and her crew still have blaze of glory to help fall back on. Kaeris herself can get by with small amounts of burning that she can apply in her own activation. So while I think she can be countered, I don't think she can fully countered as easily as Hoff and Raspy. 

Colette:  Condition removal hurts Colette worst then Kaeris since her crew relies on it for survival. However I do feel like Colette is far more flexible with her hiring which means you don't necessarily have to play the distracted game. So while "Performers" can get hard countered, Colette herself can make do. 

Mei Feng:  Scrap removal can slow down her crew but I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep up with her scrap generation. I'm sure there are specific matchup's that might cause her problems but I don't feel like scrap is critically integral to how she plays. Anti Armour is probably a bigger issue for her crew then scrap removal but unlike Hoff, the crew can spread out to make it a bit tougher to deal with. 

Sandeep:  Everything that makes Ramos good without the anti armour issues. The only thing that Sandeep is concerned with is Sandeep himself. He's incredibly fragile and I feel like savvy players can hire assassins to deal with Sandeep himself. Flying/placement/incorporeal  models can break through his bubble wrap and Sandeep himself has no means of defence or escape. So while I think the list is great, Sandeep himself can be countered. 

 

Good:

Ironsides:  There isn't really a strong gimmick that can be countered with Toni. She works by grouping together or going in pairs. Her biggest issue will likely be board control and shockwaves but unionized helps with that. 

Ramos:  Anti armour seems like an obvious problem for Ramos but given how he's a summoner, it's not as big a deal as Hoff. Ramos specializes in cheap expendable summons that can be utilized during his own activation. Also unlike Hoff, Ramos doesn't need to bunch up and his small spiders can easily hide, making targeting them difficult. 

 

Best:

Marcus:  Mutations by design are supposed to make Marcus flexible. The beasts are very fast and Marcus himself can take on a multitude of roles. Chimera doesn't really rely on a particular gimmick outside of the mutations. Despite my current grievances of Marcus being in the worst shape, I do think he's the hardest master to counter for Arcanists.  

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On 3/15/2019 at 8:37 PM, Adran said:

Not for certain, the manifest rules for avatars were in the M2e rulebook. But it does show it is the current intent. 

I really hope they will go with that. Heck maybe even make some alternate models matching different title  ;) 
Just do not force us to use the alts when playing with the title so we can pick and choose :D

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