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Coryphee duet

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I have some questions about replacing duet. First I move duet and then replace him to 2 coryphee, which one of them not activated. Then activate new coryphee and replace 2 of them into coryphee duet. Does coryphee duet has been activated second time with 2 action or not? There is new coryphee duet each time he is replacing or it is some model for all activations?

 

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1 hour ago, NAIR said:

I have some questions about replacing duet. First I move duet and then replace him to 2 coryphee, which one of them not activated. Then activate new coryphee and replace 2 of them into coryphee duet. Does coryphee duet has been activated second time with 2 action or not? There is new coryphee duet each time he is replacing or it is some model for all activations?

 

I would say it's a new model, but with many of the same things as the old model, but that doesn't matter for the rest of your question.

The activation is allowed 2 actions and the bonus action. So if the corephyee just took a bonus action, the model it was replaced with is allowed to still do 2 actions.

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Has anyone tried it since it suffers the half irreducible damage when spliting? Seem as an extremely brittle model now if faced with the right tools.

I know everything has a counter, but not everything costs 12 points, and it seems that anything with irreducible damage is going to chew too easily though this model, specially when the duet's damage output is not all that great at 2/4/5 for a 12 point guy.

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11 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Has anyone tried it since it suffers the half irreducible damage when spliting? Seem as an extremely brittle model now if faced with the right tools.

I know everything has a counter, but not everything costs 12 points, and it seems that anything with irreducible damage is going to chew too easily though this model, specially when the duet's damage output is not all that great at 2/4/5 for a 12 point guy.

Everything with irreducible damage that goes through Distracted and Df7.

Damage output isn't great, but it's still Melee 7 and potential 4 attacks a turn.

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1 minute ago, trikk said:

Everything with irreducible damage that goes through Distracted and Df7.

Damage output isn't great, but it's still Melee 7 and potential 4 attacks a turn.

Yes I know her stats, I'm talking about if the recent change does really affect them or not. I see it as a big hit on their durability to be honest., but without having tested them, I wanted other peoples opinion as theory crafting and winning with no base is no good.

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well losing half its wounds just allows it to be 5 wound coryphee. who when they join together again add their wounds so its fine. just stops it healing through the split and reform as it used to. its still df7, Armour 2 and melee 7

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I had one game with the duet and I am not convinced from her.

My problem is not that they need the healing, it is that now you can´t use 4 AP each turn.

If the Duet get the first damage, then you have after the split a Coryphee with 4 Hp. There are a lots of models, wich can kill it with a single Activation.

Now i don´t see the Duet at 12 SS, more like 10....

 

 

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I find it so hard to get my head around the Duet. It's got to be one of, if not, the most complicated model to use. I pity any new player who picks up this model trying to figure out how to use it as it's basically going to need a flow chart in order to play it properly.

I love having it split and reform but I feel like the model would be so much easier if it just reformed once like it did in M2E. Then you could balance the Duet as it's own model and the Coryphee individually.

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1 hour ago, Kelto said:

I had one game with the duet and I am not convinced from her.

My problem is not that they need the healing, it is that now you can´t use 4 AP each turn.

If the Duet get the first damage, then you have after the split a Coryphee with 4 Hp. There are a lots of models, wich can kill it with a single Activation.

Now i don´t see the Duet at 12 SS, more like 10....

 

 

I've tried it since the update and that's exactly what I've found. If you leave it as the Duet, Nimble is now what you use as your bonus action, since splitting leaves the individual Coryphee much more vulnerable than the Duet, for effectively one action more and some extra movement from placement shenanigans. Before it was the tough nut to crack distracting from an otherwise brittle crew, now it's joined them in brittleness.

10ss seems fair, (though if this change stays I hope they tweak the Performer crew a bit) or leave them at 12ss and give the incidental heal back.

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49 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

I've tried it since the update and that's exactly what I've found. If you leave it as the Duet, Nimble is now what you use as your bonus action, since splitting leaves the individual Coryphee much more vulnerable than the Duet, for effectively one action more and some extra movement from placement shenanigans. Before it was the tough nut to crack distracting from an otherwise brittle crew, now it's joined them in brittleness.

10ss seems fair, (though if this change stays I hope they tweak the Performer crew a bit) or leave them at 12ss and give the incidental heal back.

Did you have healing? 
Did you get hit with irreducable/armor piercing damage?

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59 minutes ago, trikk said:

Did you have healing? 
Did you get hit with irreducable/armor piercing damage?

I had the same healing the Performer crew generally has access to: the Duet's action which is a pulse, so does not affect itself, and a Mannequin, which is Living only, so can't heal the Duet.

There was some armor piercing in the opposing crew (as I imagine will be brought against most Arcanist crews), but the Duet was fast enough to avoid it. But, with a a few attacks getting either getting forced through or occuring because of bad flips on my end, the Duet was whittled down 3 wounds. Then, when I had it split to get the extra action needed to complete a scheme, both Coryphee came in pretty hurt and died quickly, even just plinking off a wound a time without ignoring armor.

 

Sidepoint, has it been clarified if the Duet takes half its Wds rounded up or down when it splits?

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On 3/15/2019 at 4:31 PM, katadder said:

well losing half its wounds just allows it to be 5 wound coryphee. who when they join together again add their wounds so its fine. just stops it healing through the split and reform as it used to. its still df7, Armour 2 and melee 7

I can understand the healing prevention, but now it is too bad. As soon as the Duet goes down to say 5-6 wounds, if he splits, the coryphees are going to be at like 3 wounds, so that is way to risky as it's no longer hard to kill them.This means that once the duet is wounded you are no longer getting 4 AP from it, which means it's a relatively overcosted 12 SS model.

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11 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

I can understand the healing prevention, but now it is too bad. As soon as the Duet goes down to say 5-6 wounds, if he splits, the coryphees are going to be at like 3 wounds, so that is way to risky as it's no longer hard to kill them.This means that once the duet is wounded you are no longer getting 4 AP from it, which means it's a relatively overcosted 12 SS model.

You can always heal it with a Silent One/Mobile Toolkit. 

Getting 5 Wds off the Duet isn't particularly easy.
Finishing off a 3 Wd Coryphee isn't super easy too
If both of those happen, you still have a 6SS 3 Wd Coryphee.

 

What it does, however, is making attacking it less pointless and you actually have to avoid/prioritize armor ignoring models.

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Have you played the new Duett?

You do half of its current life as damage if you split, that means that you do yourself one point damage each time you split and have an odd woundcount.

I had now my second play with the Duett, and if this the final state, i would not bring it to the table in the future.

Now there are so many ways to kill a single Coryphee with 2 or 3 wounds, you can't get the Split each term.

 

We need to see things from both sides:

The Duett have nimble, with the old rules you would never use it.

In my games I used it nearly every round and the Duett get a different feeling with it.

It's a fun figure to play, but if you can not use Split nearly every round, it is not 12 SS worth.

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7 minutes ago, Kelto said:

Have you played the new Duett?

You do half of its current life as damage if you split, that means that you do yourself one point damage each time you split and have an odd woundcount.

I had now my second play with the Duett, and if this the final state, i would not bring it to the table in the future.

Now there are so many ways to kill a single Coryphee with 2 or 3 wounds, you can't get the Split each term.

 

We need to see things from both sides:

The Duett have nimble, with the old rules you would never use it.

In my games I used it nearly every round and the Duett get a different feeling with it.

It's a fun figure to play, but if you can not use Split nearly every round, it is not 12 SS worth.

I still don't get why it's the whole "suffer damage" instead of just joining the Wds of the model when you create the duet and splitting them equally when you split into the coryphees. Which model breaks this? It's very clean, makes sense.

 

A 9 HP Duet splits in a 4 and 5 HP Coryphee. 4 and 5 HP Coryphee reform into a 9HP duet.

 

Did anyone tried the duet with Silent One/Mobile Toolkit?

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Nope, because it I isn't worth bringing these models just for the duet and they don't do enough for the crew as a whole to justify the expense- enough healing for the others in it. 

I have found exactly what was described - once it takes damage, you do not want to split it, especially since it will be in the thick of it and thus close to enemy beaters which can take out a 4 health model in a single activation.

Either let it heal again or reduce its point cost to 10. I would go with the first, because this crew should have a resilient backstopper and it is more tanky than a beater as it is. And no, 2/4/5 is not much against the amount of armour/shielding out there and Execute is far too easily countered to be more than situational.

If it must be a glasscannon and 12 SS, give it a + to attack or damage.

But as I said, I'd rather have the heal back.

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Silent One seems like a very good pick TBH. Has a heal (for every model in your crew), has a ranged attack, can create pillars, can have magical training. I played against it and it's pretty solid TBH.

Toolkit is a 4SS investment that can heal the Duet, give it Shielded or Focus. 

Just like everyone has to adapt to Colette, Arcanists have to adapt to keeping the duet alive ;)

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So you would not complain about a 4 SS tax to keep a 12 SS model playable? Because Colette's crew does not need the Silent One for anything else-  it has healing and most other models in it can be one-hitted anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Sebasthos said:

So you would not complain about a 4 SS tax to keep a 12 SS model playable? Because Colette's crew does not need the Silent One for anything else-  it has healing and most other models in it can be one-hitted anyway.

Which ones? Showgirls are the same garbage most 5SS models are.

But Carlos, Cassandra, Colette and the Duet are all very hard to take down and if they get one shot then apparently you have very bad luck. Silent ones are pretty good non-Keyword hires TBH. They are minions, so they give you AR, they can stone, heal, create pillar and shoot with auto-slow. 

 

I think the Duet's survivability is more or less the same as Riders.

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Toolkit can´t heal the Duet, it has not the living charatesitc.

Yeah the Duet survivability is at the same level as the Riders, but he Duet lose it´s survivabilty as soon as it split itself.

 

Without the split you have a outpout as a lot of 8 SS Models, but with tankines of a 11 SS model (without it´s utility).

 

I will test the Silent One with Colette, but i don´t have the feeling that i will be woth it´s cost of 7 SS in a thematic crew.

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1 minute ago, Kelto said:

Toolkit can´t heal the Duet, it has not the living charatesitc.

Yeah the Duet survivability is at the same level as the Riders, but he Duet lose it´s survivabilty as soon as it split itself.

 

Without the split you have a outpout as a lot of 8 SS Models, but with tankines of a 11 SS model (without it´s utility).

 

I will test the Silent One with Colette, but i don´t have the feeling that i will be woth it´s cost of 7 SS in a thematic crew.

Automaton heals Living. Toolkit heals Constructs.

 

I never had issues with the Duet dual-activation. But with the heal, it's becomes another model in Perfomers that's not worth attacking. And this will mean that Carlos and Cassandra take all the heat and will die and people will complain that Perfomers need boosts (and they really don't).

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Sorry, taking a 7 SS model, or even just a 4 SS model, to get the duet working is just not worth it. The way it is right now, it is too expensive for what it does - it does neither have the survivability or the damage output that goes with 12 SS. So it should either be boosted in one of the 2 areas or reduced in points to reflect that.

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10 minutes ago, Sebasthos said:

Sorry, taking a 7 SS model, or even just a 4 SS model, to get the duet working is just not worth it. The way it is right now, it is too expensive for what it does - it does neither have the survivability or the damage output that goes with 12 SS. So it should either be boosted in one of the 2 areas or reduced in points to reflect that.

I really think saying "it doesn't work" is a huge exaggeration. I do think the whole replace should be simplified but you can't just charge it mindlessly in the enemy crew. It's as survivable as most models it's cost. It hits less but will definitely have a few dual activations during the game.

 

Going through 4 Df6 wounds with Armor +2 while Distracted isn't really that easy too.

 

It could lower it's attacks stat to 6 and get a positive to damage I suppose.

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4 hours ago, trikk said:

I still don't get why it's the whole "suffer damage" instead of just joining the Wds of the model when you create the duet and splitting them equally when you split into the coryphees. Which model breaks this? It's very clean, makes sense.

 

A 9 HP Duet splits in a 4 and 5 HP Coryphee. 4 and 5 HP Coryphee reform into a 9HP duet.

 

Did anyone tried the duet with Silent One/Mobile Toolkit?

You are overpaying on a silent one to bring it just for that, as half of it's card is almost going to be useless.

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